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Subject: Re: Rebel Performance Rating

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 11:36:32 09/19/99

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On September 19, 1999 at 12:19:14, Mark Young wrote:

>On September 19, 1999 at 09:37:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>On September 18, 1999 at 17:44:11, Stephen A. Boak wrote:
>>
>>>By the way, the Rebel Century Performance Rating for the match today was:
>>>         >>  2553  <<
>>>which is certainly in the range of Grandmaster ratings.
>>
>>Rebel's TPR so far is roughly 2480, which is not GM level. Ten games are not
>>enough to know much, but taking into consideration that Rebel is the program
>>that scored the best in Aegon over the years, this tpr seems to indicate that
>>programs do not reach GM level yet at slow time controls and against motivated
>>GMs. One more thing: considering that Rebel played these games with a hardware
>>much faster than a P200MMX, it seems clear that the SSDF list is quite inflated,
>>maybe by some 150 points.
>>
>>I think that someone has been saying all this for years. Hi Bob! :)
>
>Yes, Bob has stood his ground in regards to saying that today’s programs are not
>yet at grandmaster strength. Bob has given his reason why, and defended them
>well. Bob has given a rating for the top programs of 2400 to 2450. In light of
>the Rebel data this may also be too high for anything using a PII 400 or slower.
>
>I will be the first one to say Bob was right, and I was wrong, as I too thought
>that today’s programs have broken the 2500 barrier. I am one how does not
>disregard data, because it conflicts with my personal opinion.
>
>Before I can change my opinion I still need some data on Rebel 10.5. I am one
>who does not assume Rebel 10.5 is stronger then say Rebel 10, just because it
>has a higher version number on it. Nor do I assume Rebel 10.5 is as strong as
>Fritz 5.32 or Hiarcs 7.32 or Chessmaster 6000 without any data to back it up.
>Those questions must be answered first before we start claiming that the Rebel
>10.5’s results playing against Grandmaster is a typical results with any of the
>other top proven programs on the SSDF list.

Over the years, Rebel performed better in Aegon than Morsch engines, the King,
Hiarcs and all the others. I see no reason to believe that the situation is
different now regarding program-human games.

Enrique

>>Looking at the few 40/2 games played so far by programs against strong human
>>opponents, I wonder if results wouldn't be similar if played against 2300
>>people. The positional superiority of a 2300 player is still immense, and for
>>them it might be a matter of avoiding tactics, as wise IMs and GMs do when
>>playing computer programs. Maybe the Elo system works differently for programs?
>>
>>Aside form this, I don't think it makes sense to use the same opening book in
>>comp-comp and in human-comp games. It is quite absurd to play openings that lead
>>to positional games, where programs are quite dumb, and this is happening too
>>often. Is it not a better idea to build a gambit-like book that tries to open
>>the game and play tactics? Same for playing style. A program can afford to play
>>the Orthodox against another program, because neither will understand a thing,
>>but against a strong human player it's a mistake. Look, for instance, at Rebel-2
>>yesterday.
>>
>>Enrique



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