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Subject: Re: Hiarcs7.32: "I am not Impressed"

Author: Mark Young

Date: 17:17:19 09/21/99

Go up one level in this thread


On September 21, 1999 at 19:12:07, odell hall wrote:

>On September 21, 1999 at 17:54:55, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On September 21, 1999 at 15:00:14, odell hall wrote:
>>
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>  Has anyone noticed the often bizarre and irresponsible play of Hiarcs7.32?
>>>It is hard to believe this program is so celebrated here at CCC, the program has
>>>some obvious flaws that I think any Astute Human master could easily exploit.
>>>Last night I played it on my AMD k6-2 350 40mb, at 40\1hr, and nearly won, after
>>>the game I analyzed with fritz5.32, it pointed out atleast five missed wins on
>>>my part. Some may some, "well what are you talking about you lost didn't you"?,
>>>True but the point that I am making is that a player of my level should never of
>>>had hiarcs in such a position (uscf 1804). Analyzing the game with junior,
>>>fritz, and chessmaster they all made superior moves than hiarcs, and avoiding
>>>the trouble. If I were a computer chess operator on icc i would not feel
>>>comfortable playing hiarcs7.32 against titled players in anything over game\30.
>>>Don't get me wrong I am not basing my accessment on just this one game, but
>>>many. I think the biggest problem with hiarcs7 is the queenside Castling bug?
>>>Here is the Game, to illustrate what I am talking about.
>>
>>I have not looked at the game yet, but I seen some other say there Hiarcs did
>>not play the same moves. And I see you are using an AMD chip, I have found games
>>played on the AMD chip that could not be reproduced by an intel chip.
>>
>>>
>  Hi Mark
>
>
>  I considered this possibility you mentioned, the only thing that makes me
>doubt that it is the chip is the fact, that when I play hiarcs7. in computer vs
>computer games on my machine it "destroyes" everything. I beat a friend of mine
>who has CM6000 in a six game match, this makes me think it is not the chip.

I will not try and keep guessing what is going on in this game, but there was
some strange things between your scores, times, and evals. Then what I could
reproduce. I tried to reproduce some of the moves and evals by playing though
the games as if I were playing it myself. I tried again taking the learning file
out of Hiarcs. I tried in watch mode. This may just be how hiarcs 7.32 is or
this may point to some kind of problem.

I will give one example.

Your move 21. Hiarcs played h5 and search 511 sec. or 8 1/2 min to do a 8 ply
search. My hiarcs never played h5 in this position at ply 8 and I tried many
times and many ways, and it only took 4 1/4 mins to hit a 9 ply search. We are
about the same speed, I was running a P II 400 with the same hash as you at
39936kB.



as I were playing the game.

1r3rk1/p1q3b1/2P1b2p/3n1p2/N3p2P/8/PPQBPPB1/1K1R3R w - - 0 1

Analysis by Hiarcs 7.32:

21...Ne7 22.Be3
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 1   00:00:00
21...Ne7 22.Bc3
  +-  (2.16)   depth: 2/5   00:00:00
21...Ne7 22.Rc1
  +-  (2.27)   depth: 2/11   00:00:00
21...Rfc8 22.Bxe4
  +-  (2.19)   depth: 2/11   00:00:00
21...Rfc8 22.Bh3 Nb4
  +-  (2.16)   depth: 3/11   00:00:00
21...Rfc8 22.Bh3 Nb4
  +-  (2.16)   depth: 4/11   00:00:00
21...Rfc8 22.Bh1 Nb4 23.Bxb4 Rxb4 24.Rc1
  +-  (1.98)   depth: 5/19   00:00:00  12kN
21.h5
  +-  (2.68)   depth: 1   00:00:00
21.h5
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 2/3   00:00:00
21.h5 Rfc8
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 2/3   00:00:00
21.Rhg1 Ne7
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 2/8   00:00:00
21.Rhg1 Ne7
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 3/8   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4
  +-  (2.34)   depth: 3/8   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4
  +-  (2.34)   depth: 3/8   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4
  +-  (1.98)   depth: 4/8   00:00:00
21.h5 Rfc8 22.Rc1 Ne7 23.Be3 Qxc6 24.Bxa7
  +-  (1.59)   depth: 4/12   00:00:00
21.Rhg1 Ne7
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 4/12   00:00:00
21.Rhg1 Ne7
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 5/12   00:00:00  1kN
21.Rhg1 Rfc8 22.Bh1
  +-  (1.98)   depth: 6/12   00:00:00  2kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4
  +-  (1.73)   depth: 7/23   00:00:04  169kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.b3 Rc8 24.Qc5 Qxc6
  +-  (1.57)   depth: 7/25   00:00:07  251kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4
  ±  (1.32)   depth: 8/25   00:00:51  1788kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.Bh3 Qf7 24.Ka1 Rc4 25.Nc3 Rxc6
  ±  (1.26)   depth: 8/27   00:01:07  2343kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4
  ±  (1.01)   depth: 9/27   00:04:15  8334kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.Bf1 Rfb8 24.Rd2 Rc8 25.Nc3 Qxc6 26.Rg3
  ±  (0.91)   depth: 9/29   00:05:19  10524kN
21.Rh3 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.Rg3 Rc4 24.Nc3 Rxc6 25.Rg1 Rc8
  ±  (0.96)   depth: 9/29   00:08:57  17718kN

(Young,  9/21/99)


In watch mode, after restart.

1r3rk1/p1q3b1/2P1b2p/3n1p2/N3p2P/8/PPQBPPB1/1K1R3R w - - 0 1

Analysis by Hiarcs 7.32:

21.h5
  +-  (2.68)   depth: 1   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4
  +-  (2.34)   depth: 2/4   00:00:00
21.h5 Nf4 22.Bxf4 Qxf4
  +-  (2.33)   depth: 2/6   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4
  +-  (2.34)   depth: 3/8   00:00:00
21.h5 Nb4
  +-  (2.09)   depth: 4/10   00:00:00
21.h5 Rfc8 22.Rc1 Ne7 23.Be3 Qxc6 24.Bxa7
  +-  (1.59)   depth: 4/12   00:00:00
21.Qc5 Ne7 22.Rc1 Rfd8
  +-  (1.90)   depth: 4/14   00:00:00
21.Qc5 Rfc8
  +-  (1.63)   depth: 5/19   00:00:01  32kN
21.Qc5 Rfc8 22.Rc1 Nb6 23.Nc3 Qxc6 24.Qxc6 Rxc6
  ±  (1.40)   depth: 5/21   00:00:01  45kN
21.h5 Rfc8 22.Rc1 Ne7 23.Be3 Qxc6 24.Bxa7
  +-  (1.59)   depth: 5/21   00:00:01  52kN
21.Rhg1 Ne7 22.Bc3 Bxc3 23.Qxc3 Qxc6
  +-  (1.91)   depth: 5/21   00:00:02  69kN
21.Rhg1 Rfc8
  +-  (1.66)   depth: 6/21   00:00:04  126kN
21.Rhg1 Rfc8 22.Bh1 Kf7
  +-  (1.66)   depth: 6/23   00:00:05  163kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.b3 Rc8 24.Qc5 Rcb8
  +-  (1.79)   depth: 7/23   00:00:22  708kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4
  +-  (1.54)   depth: 8/25   00:00:49  1640kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.Bh3 Rc4 24.Rd7 Qxd7 25.Qxc4 Qf7 26.Qc3 Bxa2+ 27.Kc2
  ±  (1.35)   depth: 8/27   00:01:13  2493kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4
  ±  (1.10)   depth: 9/27   00:04:46  9474kN
21.Rhg1 Nb4 22.Bxb4 Rxb4 23.Bf1 Rc4 24.Qxc4 Bxc4 25.Rd7 Qe5 26.Rgxg7+ Qxg7
27.Rxg7+ Kxg7 28.b3 Bb5 29.c7
  ±  (0.93)   depth: 9/29   00:06:17  12506kN

(Young, 9/21/99)



>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Event "Match game4"]
>>>[Site "?"]
>>>[Date "????.??.??"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Hiarcs7.32"]
>>>[Black "O.hall"]
>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>[ECO "E61"]
>>>[WhiteElo "2595"]
>>>[BlackElo "1805"]
>>>[Annotator "ohall"
>>>[PlyCount "69"]
>>>
>>>{39936kB, super.ctg. PentiumII
>>>} 1. d4 {0} 1... Nf6 {15} 2. c4 {0} 2... g6 {7}
>>>3. g3 {0} 3... Bg7 {8} 4. Bg2 {0} 4... O-O {10} 5. Nc3 {0} 5... c6 {9} 6. Qb3 {
>>>0.58/9 68} 6... d6 {77} 7. Nf3 {0.56/9 20} 7... Nbd7 {41} 8. Bg5 {0.49/9 131}
>>>8... h6 {26} 9. Bd2 {0.49/9 80} 9... e5 {60} 10. dxe5 {0.42/9 71} 10... Nxe5 {
>>>73} 11. Nxe5 {0.36/9 59} 11... dxe5 {28} 12. O-O-O {0.34/9 74} 12... Qc7 {40}
>>>13. Na4 {-0.03/9 232} 13... b5 {73} 14. cxb5 {0.51/9 173} 14... Be6 {39} 15.
>>>Qc2 {0.94/8 68} 15... Rac8 {50} 16. bxc6 {1.07/8 73} 16... Nd5 {43} 17. Kb1 {
>>>1.51/9 112} 17... f5 {113} 18. h4 {1.67/8 99} 18... e4 {25} 19. g4 {1.07/9 325}
>>>19... Rb8 {24} 20. gxf5 {1.90/8 249} 20... gxf5 {21} 21. h5 {0.90/8 511} 21...
>>>Nb4 {63} 22. Bxb4 {-0.40/9 370} 22... Rxb4 {4} 23. Kc1 {-0.87/8 196} 23... Rc4
>>>{206} 24. Nc3 {-1.30/9 80} 24... Qxc6 {9} 25. Rdg1 {-1.41/9 94} 25... Kh7 {124}
>>>26. Rh3 {-0.95/8 62} 26... Bd4 {67} 27. Rd1 {-0.74/7 25} 27... Bxf2 {39} 28. e3
>>>{-0.54/8 31} 28... f4 {114} 29. Qxf2 {0.00/9 0} 29... Rxc3+ {177} 30. bxc3 {
>>>-0.04/9 0} 30... Qxc3+ {29} 31. Qc2 {1.59/8 37} 31... Qa1+ {74} 32. Kd2 {
>>>2.14/8 37} 32... Rd8+ {28} 33. Ke1 {2.60/9 10} 33... Rxd1+ {36} 34. Qxd1 {
>>>2.60/9 6} 34... Qxa2 {32} 35. Bxe4+ {6.56/8 37} 1-0



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