Author: Harald Faber
Date: 08:44:11 10/10/99
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On October 10, 1999 at 05:23:01, Ed Schröder wrote: >>Posted by Harald Faber on October 10, 1999 at 03:22:13: >> >>In Reply to: PB-ON vs PB-OFF (results experiment-1) posted by Ed Schröder >>on October 10, 1999 at 03:14:10: >> >>On October 10, 1999 at 03:14:10, Ed Schröder wrote: >> >>>PB-ON vs PB-OFF (results experiment-1) >>> >>>To enrich the discussion about the value of the "Permanent Brain" (PB) I >>>have started 2 experiments with Rebel Century (RC) which will give some >>>data for a better judgement. >>> >>>Experiment-1: >>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>100 auto232 games >>>Time control: 60 secs average. >>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>Result: 61-39 >>> >>>Experiment-2: >>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>100 auto232 games >>>Time control: RC (PB=ON) 30 sec average >>>Time control: RC (PB=OFF) 60 sec average >>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>Status: in progress >>> >>>Ed Schroder >> >>Sorry Ed, but where is the sense in it? Is there any difference than playing >>Rebel10-Rebel9 which is also meaningless? >>Would you expect a result of 50-50 when both playing PB=on or both PB=off? I >>wouldn't. >>I think the most interesting idea is to take Rebel+PB=on against another >>program >>with PB=on and as comparison play the same match with both PB=off. Of >>course you >>can extend this to Rebel+PB-vs-Opp X PB=off and Rebel PB=off vs Opp X PB=on. >> >>But Rebel vs Rebel, sorry, there is really no sense in it. > >I think you missed the discussion of the value of the PB. There are many who >believe the PB is only worth 20-40 elo points. I believe this is not true and so >I started these 2 experiments. I believe the value of the PB is worth AT LEAST >50 elo points but most probably 100 elo and I wouldn't be surprised if it will >be higher. > >Now you can argue about playing Rebel-Rebel as a base. The big advantage >playing Rebel-Rebel is 2 ways: a) you have a 100% equal opponent which is >of course very important b) using Rebel you can turn off all learning to avoid >any unwanted side effects for the experiment. But it is still playing Rebel-Rebel! It is just like Hiarcs7-Hiarcs6. >The only disadvantage I see is that most probably the percentage of the >predicted moves will be a bit higher than the average you get playing ALL >other programs. Note that Rebel (or any other program) will have a different >percentage of predicted moves against another opponent. Read above again, you will get a much more appropriate result when playing Rebel+PB vs a different opponent and compare it with Rebel-PB vs. the same different opponent. Then, and only then you will see how much PB gives in ELO (of course to be sure one needs some more games against some more opponents). >Ed
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