Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:27:31 10/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 10, 1999 at 11:48:19, Harald Faber wrote: >On October 10, 1999 at 10:07:11, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 10, 1999 at 03:22:13, Harald Faber wrote: >> >>>On October 10, 1999 at 03:14:10, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>PB-ON vs PB-OFF (results experiment-1) >>>> >>>>To enrich the discussion about the value of the "Permanent Brain" (PB) I >>>>have started 2 experiments with Rebel Century (RC) which will give some >>>>data for a better judgement. >>>> >>>>Experiment-1: >>>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>>100 auto232 games >>>>Time control: 60 secs average. >>>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>>Result: 61-39 >>>> >>>>Experiment-2: >>>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>>100 auto232 games >>>>Time control: RC (PB=ON) 30 sec average >>>>Time control: RC (PB=OFF) 60 sec average >>>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>>Status: in progress >>>> >>>>Ed Schroder >>> >>>Sorry Ed, but where is the sense in it? Is there any difference than playing >>>Rebel10-Rebel9 which is also meaningless? >>>Would you expect a result of 50-50 when both playing PB=on or both PB=off? I >>>wouldn't. >>>I think the most interesting idea is to take Rebel+PB=on against another program >>>with PB=on and as comparison play the same match with both PB=off. Of course you >>>can extend this to Rebel+PB-vs-Opp X PB=off and Rebel PB=off vs Opp X PB=on. >>> >>>But Rebel vs Rebel, sorry, there is really no sense in it. >> >> >>It is the perfect way to find out what PB is worth with no other degrees of >>freedom in the experiment. Different programs would break the experiment as >>you start off with two variables, (a) program characteristics and (b) PB on/off. > >(a) is no disadvantage, it is advantage! It doesn't break, it makes it senseful! >Read my other post. ask _any_ scientist about conducting a scientific experiment, and he will tell you that if you have only one variable, you can attribute results to that one variable's changes. But if you have two variables, which is the significant one? Ed's experiment has started off with just one variable, so _any_ difference can be directly attributed to PB on/off. Then it is possible to run the same identical test, but with a different opponent, if you want. Because _now_ the only new variable will be the different opponent. > >>using two programs is an ok idea, but this approach does highlight the >>difference between PBon and PBoff pretty clearly. > >?? >Wasn't it you who once argued against playing a program vs the predecessor, so >where is the difference now when playing the same program against itself?? >I wouldn't even expect a 50% score both programs playing with the same settings. I've never changed that opinion either. But that is the point here. By highlighting the 'difference' it can be seen very clearly... and the difference between the two programs is _only_ in the thing being tested. It clearly won't show how Rebel would do against other programs. But it gives a good upper bound on the effect of PB over no PB. Then run this with a different opponent to get the other extreme...
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