Author: Peter Kappler
Date: 11:50:25 10/26/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 26, 1999 at 12:54:02, Amir Ban wrote: >On October 25, 1999 at 23:04:42, Peter Kappler wrote: > >>On October 25, 1999 at 22:06:11, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On October 25, 1999 at 21:26:11, Jerry wrote: >>> >>>>On October 25, 1999 at 20:39:05, Michael Fuhrmann wrote: >>>> >>>>>Crafty's Blitz rating on ICC hit an incredible 3262 today. It's a new high for >>>>>Crafty, which is miles ahead of the competition on the ICC best list. Congrats >>>>>to Hyatt! >>>> >>>>One reason Crafty is rated so high is his incredible noplay list, refusing to >>>>play other high rated computer programs when he loses a few times... >>> >>> >>>Please name the "high rated programs" on crafty's noplay list, if you want to >>>make a statement like that... >>> >>>Here is the actual ICC noplay list: >>> >>>********* -human cheating >>>********* -human cheating >>>CraftyCrafty -crafty clone >>>********* -bad behavior >>>grouchy -crafty clone >>>********* -human cheating >>>********* -admitted human cheating >>>************* -human cheating >>>ComputerMan -craftyclone >>>Dementia -disconnector >>>EA6PZ -censored for attitude >>>Eza -crafty clone >>>********* -human cheating >>>attakinski -disconnector (chessmaster celeron 333) >>>cookies -crafty clone >>>criollo -crafty clone >>>DesX -crafty clone >>>************* -human cheating >>>ibrax -human cheating (admitted) >>>Lippy -crafty clone >>>bookbuilder -crafty clone >>>counterplay -crafty clone >>>***** -human cheating >>>******** -human caught playing and observing at same time >>>GODMODE -crafty clone >>>inmortal -crafty clone >>>Varguz -disconnector and more than 4 games in a row. >>>ban -disconnected multiple times in one game. (junior 6.x) >>>brut -crafty clone >>>crafty450 -crafty clone >>>Data -crafty clone >>>dini -refused to identify program/hardware >>>egghead -crafty clone >>>Good-Boy -everybody has noplayed him for attitude >>>Jack-Daniels -crafty clone >>>********* -human cheating >>> >>>Any names with ***** in them are humans that were caught cheating but which >>>have not yet gotten a (C) nor admitted it. >>> >>>The "disconnectors" are done by my custom interface when I run it. If someone >>>disconnects two times in one game, does so in two consecutive games, they get >>>+noplayed for obvious reasons. >>> >>>Crafty Clones are _not_ wanted. I can do those games offline. Xboard and my >>>custom interface both automatically +noplay any crafty clone that matches >>>crafty. >>> >>> >>> >>>Here is best(c): >>> >>>Standard Blitz Bullet >>>2827 OzsO(C) 3251 crafty(C) 3123 crafty(C) >>>2783 Good-Boy(C) 3155 Mofongo(C) 2960 Ferret(C) >>>2724 Ferret(C) 3145 A-Morozevi(GM) 2956 ZarkovX(C) >>>2714 Lynnett(C) 3136 Ferret(C) 2857 Sammour-Hasbun >>>2693 TheComputer(C) 3115 Hawkeye(IM) 2854 Dlugy(GM) >>>2667 crafty(C) 3069 Vic11 2799 Lippy(C) >>>2655 SandmanJr(C) 3068 FlyingPike(GM) 2791 Wagner(FM) >>>2612 KillerGrob(C) 3061 ban(C) 2779 Vic11 >>>2603 cptnBluebe(GM) 3025 gahan(GM) 2771 vaska(GM) >>>2593 ZarkovX(C) 3018 Lippy(C) 2760 Secret(C) >>>2583 counterplay(C) 3016 Tendulkar(GM) 2760 Tack(GM) >>>2577 singacrafty(C) 3013 cptnBluebe(GM) 2754 KillerGrob(C) >>>2577 Zenith(C) 3009 Dlugy(GM) 2750 Masterchess(C) >>>2576 Moron(C) 3006 Rix(IM) 2745 Hawkeye(IM) >>>2569 Steffie(C) 2996 EggSalad(C) 2733 brut(C) >>>2548 triskelon(C) 2995 GMAlex(GM) 2721 nataf(GM) >>>2543 BountyHunte(C) 2990 Lolita(C) 2718 pap(GM) >>>2542 Lippy(C) 2984 NDShort(GM) 2716 UFGator(C) >>>2541 mundilfari(C) 2974 jeleen(GM) 2691 jaguar >>> >>> >>>Please show me all those "top-rated" programs I have noplayed. I play Ferret, >>>Zarkov, etc. On the standard list, I have played ozso until he quit playing me >>>as he was trying to see how high he could drive his standard rating. I play >>>Ferret regularly. Sandmanjr. Zarkovx, and bountyhunter (no crafty clones at >>>all). On the blitz list, I play ferret, have played ban a lot although he got >>>+noplayed sometime recently by the automatic disconnect detector. >> >> >>This is really disappointing, as Ban and Ferret are the only SMP-capable >>programs (besides other Crafty clones) on ICC. I enjoyed watching the Crafty >>vs. Ban encounters - the games were always very tense and well fought. >> >>Despite the history between you and Amir, I doubt that the disconnects were >>intentional. Probably just a poor connection on his side. I hope you will >>reconsider the "noplay" status. >> >>--Peter > >I got noplayed by crafty last week. I think it was playing more than 4 games in >a row rather than disconnecting. At the time crafty's rating was 3146, so it >seems it's rating jump is a result of noplaying ban. Crafty & clones typically >gain around 200-300 points when they don't play other computers. I didn't >realize crafty's noplay list is so long, but looking at it it effectively >doesn't play top computers any more (ferret is hardly around these days). > >I know about crafty's rules for not disconnecting (suspicion of cheating, what >else ?), and not playing more than 4 games in a row against a computer (mustn't >keep those humans waiting. Mind you it may be hours between games, it's your >business to keep track of who crafty plays). I find both, in the context of >games between two competitors for top blitz position to be unsportsmanlike and >rude, but so be it. > >I don't have a noplay list, by the way, but if I did, I think crafty would have >a place on it. Here is a sample of bad behavior: > >- On a previous occasion I was noplayed by crafty after winning three games in a >row, and on the way to win a 4th one, when I had to disconnect. When trying to >complete this game I found I was noplayed. I messaged Bob about this, quoting >the documented ICC rule that censoring someone you have an adjourned game with >is abuse. I was answered (rudely) that that's just how the program behaves and >it's my fault. I complained to the ICC admins on that occasion. > >- Crafty's connection is often poor, and it has big lags, of up to minutes per >move. If this happens, don't disconnect ! That's cheating. Crafty sometimes >disconnects due to connection problems, but that's not cheating. > >- Crafty will not accept a draw offer ever, even not when it has insufficient >material to win. > >- On one occasion, when the opponent had insufficient material (bishop vs. pawn, >I think), not only did it refuse to draw, but with several minutes on its clock, >it did not make a move and let time run out (ICC declared this a draw of >course). The opponent cannot just walk away because crafty has a pawn. I think >this is the worst form of abuse I've seen on ICC. > >In regard to the question of what Crafty's ICC rating reflects: It says >something, but not much. The current version (17.0 ?) is pretty competent, I >think, but it doesn't feel much better than 16.6, which was rated hundreds of >points lower. There were intermediate versions that had ICC ratings above 3200 >that were definitely soft and were consistently creamed by Junior. Crafty's >rating is more heavily influenced by whether competition like Ferret and Ban are >around. > >Amir Bob, if you are reading, may I make two suggestions? 1) If you want to enforce the "4 in a row" rule, do so automatically. Allowing a 5th game and then subsequently +noplaying the opponent seems inconsistent. Not everybody stops to read Crafty's finger notes. 2) Reconsider Crafty's policy for handling disconnects. It seems unfair that an account can get permanently +noplayed just because it had a poor network connection one day. There must be a better way to deal with this. The current situation with Ban is disappointing, to say the least. --Peter
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