Author: Tina Long
Date: 16:30:43 11/20/99
Go up one level in this thread
On November 20, 1999 at 12:32:24, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >On November 20, 1999 at 02:42:03, blass uri wrote: > >>On November 20, 1999 at 00:37:32, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >> >> >><snipped> >>>At the moment, for me, the only gauge is SSDF. Its results seem to stand up >>>preety good. SSDF has said for a few years now that Fritz was the strongest >>>program >> >>The ssdf did not say it because they did not test all the programs. >>The ssdf is saying now that chessmaster6000 has better rating than Fritz on the >>same hardware and that tiger has clearly better performance than Fritz. >> >> >>Uri > >No sir, I have had Fritz now for a number of years, it is in that time frame >that i was making reference too. If you recall the controversy made over this >and many many post with complaints. > >Have I missed a ssdf post ? where chessmasater6000 is better than fritz on >current state of the art computers ? Here is what he refers to, from the latest list, 5 Chessmaster 6000 64MB P200 MMX 2577 61 184 76% 2381 6 Fritz 5.32 64MB P200 MMX 2575 26 788 63% 2477 But this does not say CM6k is better, it says: from the games played you can be 95% sure that on this computer speed: CM6k has an SSDF rating of between 2516 and 2638 F5.32 has an SSDF rating of between 2549 and 2601 (I think the bell is probably skewed to the left, but that's another thread.) They have not tested CM6k on "current state of the art computers" so the comparison there cannot be made. >slow pentiums, yes. I have chessmaster >6000, it is a fine program and in fact It is a better program at blitz 10 min >than Fritzy and Hiarcs, this I have verified with identical hardware. >At the moment that honor goes to Hiarcs and Fritz5.32 of the programs i have, >Hiarcs best, then Fritz. I have Nimzo99, Junior5, Crafty17.1,cm6000 (and all the >rest of CM's) and many more enginess. >I do not know where I would rate the rest of these programs behinds Hiarcs and >Fritz, but they are behind those two and Crafty17.1 for the short time i have >had it probobly is around 3rd, with a better book than the one I downloaded >maybe higher yet. > >Well I understand that this site is not meant for us users. It is a site for >chess programmars and technical people involved in the art of chess programming. WRONG, we users are just as welcome here, the programmers & technical people need our input and our humour, we are the market, we, as you say below (oops I've already snipped that from you)(but not me - I play for fun) are the people who test computers vs computers, and test "personality configurations". When we say "the 3d pieces in Fritz are crap" somebody at Chessbase eventually gets a memo. When we say "CM7k has bugs"...well if a tree fell in an empty forest... >I think it is great, I really do. > >Also I understand that tournaments like Patterborn are a chance for the chess >Authors to compete and demonstrate there program to there peers. I am keenly >interested in the results and My silent congratulations goes out to all of them >for there exhasting effort. > >However but It is, as I said, not a good measuring stick for us users to >determine order of chess prowess. Individual tournaments are the "Annual Conference" for the Programmers, they shake hands and eat together. The "World Champion" needs to be good, and also needs luck. To say a program is better than another you need many many games. An 8 round Swiss tournament is a tiny sample. I wonder if Shredder 4 scored a ranking of say 2600 in an 8 round Swiss, what +/- variance the SSDF could put on this result, maybe +/- 1500. Once upon a time we had to wait 6 months to see the latest program rated on SSDF because SSDF would not publish a ranking until 100 games were played, otherwise the variance would be too extreme. Tournaments & rating lists are a very good INDICATION of strength of a program, but chess is so complicated, BEST is impossible to tell. Good onya CC users, Tina Long
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