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Subject: Re: SSDF ratings are 100% accurate

Author: Bertil Eklund

Date: 04:53:26 12/13/99

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On December 13, 1999 at 06:29:21, Albert Silver wrote:

>On December 12, 1999 at 17:18:46, Roger wrote:
>
>>Yep, the SSDF is a pool unto itself, and as such, its ratings can't be compared
>>to those of humans.
>>
>>The problem in saying that the ratings are 100% ACCURATE is: Accurate compared
>>to what? If the ratings are what they are, that is, if the pool is 100%
>>isolated, then the statement is tautological: The SSDF ratings are accurate
>>compared to themselves. Not very exciting.
>
>Not sure what you mean.
>
>>
>>So...my opinion is that statements about the accuracy of the ratings must refer
>>to some external source of validation, in other words, some reference point
>>outside the pool itself.
>
>Why?
>
>>
>>And that, of course, would be human ratings.
>
>I don't understand how adding games against humans will make a rating system
>that calculates how computers do against other computers more precise. If
>anything it will make it valueless.
>
>>
>>So, as more IM and GM versus computer games emerge, the SSDF ratings can
>>eventually be recalibrated
>
>Recalibrated? You are assuming they are supposed to be connected. SSDF ratings
>calculate computer versus computer ratings. If you change the pool, you change
>what they are calculating, not making it more precise. Where is it imprecise?

Hi!

Of course they are (was) connected, once upon a time (1993) the list was
connected with about 300 games against humans. The level of the list is still
based on those games.

Bertil SSDF

>                                  Albert Silver
>
>> so that ELO differences between humans and programs
>>ARE meaningful. It will simply take time for a pool of games to emerge. Then the
>>whole matter can be handled with the rigor of statistical methods.
>>
>>Roger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On December 12, 1999 at 08:49:08, Albert Silver wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>As the issue of SSDF ratings, and their comparative value with USCF or FIDE
>>>ratings, has been a recurring theme and a number of threads have sprouted
>>>recently, I thought I'd share my opinion (self-plagiarized) as I think it is
>>>relevant and might shed some light on the matter.
>>>
>>>SSDF ratings: inflated or not?
>>>Here's what I think: the ratings are not inflated in the least bit.
>>>Sounds crazy doesn't it? But it's not. People get too caught up trying to make
>>>these futile comparisons between SSDF ratings and human ratings whether USCF,
>>>FIDE, or whatever. The point is, and it has been repeated very often, there
>>>simply is no comparison. The only comparison possible is that both are generated
>>>using Elo's rating system, but that's where it ends. Elo's system is supposed to
>>>calculate, according to a point system, the probability of success between
>>>opponents rated in that system. The SSDF rating list does that to perfection,
>>>but it is based on the members of the SSDF only. If you put Fritz 5.32 on fast
>>>hardware up against the Tasc R30 or whatnot, it will pulverize the machine. The
>>>difference in SSDF ratings accurately depicts that. It has NOTHING to do with
>>>FIDE or USCF ratings. The rating of Fritz, Hiarcs, or others on the SSDF rating
>>>list depicts their probability of success against other programs on the SSDF
>>>list, and that's it. It doesn't represent their probability of success against
>>>humans because humans simply aren't a part of the testing. If you want to find
>>>out how a program will do against humans then test it against humans, and then
>>>you will find it's rating against them. The SSDF rating has nothing whatsoever
>>>to do with that. As was pointed out, I believe the SSDF ratings pool is a pool
>>>that is COMPLETELY isolated from all others and as such cannot possibly be
>>>compared with them.
>>>
>>>                                    Albert Silver



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