Author: James T. Walker
Date: 10:05:39 12/22/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 21, 1999 at 23:01:26, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 21, 1999 at 19:49:51, James T. Walker wrote: > >>On December 21, 1999 at 17:48:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 21, 1999 at 15:38:45, James T. Walker wrote: >>> >>>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:54:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 21, 1999 at 14:18:05, Mike S. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>This game is really horrible. I support what you say. Maybe programmers could >>>>>>define a condition like "If no advancement (evaluation increase) is made for ten >>>>>>moves, so accept a draw offer". The problem can also occur when a position is >>>>>>theoretically won by the side which has a material advantage (which the computer >>>>>>has and won't ever accept a draw therefore), but the computer can't find a >>>>>>method to win. >>>>>> >>>>>>Btw., has anybody ever got a draw offer from a program? I haven't. I would like >>>>>>to see this also. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>M.Scheidl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If you watch crafty play on ICC you will see it happen all the time. If you >>>>>play it on your own machine it will also offer draws.... >>>>> >>>>>and accept them when it is reasonable to do so. >>>> >>>>I assume you are talking about "The Crafty" and not Crafty Clones. My >>>>experience with Crafty is that it continues to play for a "Swindle" when the >>>>tablebases tell it the game is a draw. Crafty has other annoying habits like >>>>resigning at "Mate in 1" when it has been seeing mate for about 15 moves via the >>>>tablebases. >>>>Jim Walker >>> >>>What is annoying to you is just sound chess. It has been in _plenty_ of >>>drawn krp vs kr endings where the kr side made a mistake and lost. No reason >>>to offer a draw until the opponent draws the game. It has been in several >>>mate-in-N positions where the opponent couldn't mate (one was knn vs kp where >>>it had the kp). Why resign? Make your opponent win. Remember Kasparov vs Deep >>>Blue round 2? >> >>Hello Bob, >>Well first, you missed my point about the resigning in mate in 1. When my >>computer is counting down from mate in 22 or something like that from >>tablebases, Crafty is also aware of the impending mate since it uses the same >>tablebases. So why go all the way to mate in 1 and then resign just before >>mate? This seems like a childish act to me. Something a kid would do when mad >>about losing. >>I understand your reasons for not resigning in the cases you mention. >>Jim Walker > > >It works like this: Once a tablebase mate in N is found, and the mate drops >every move, it will resign at mate-in-5... because it is convinced that by that >point the opponent knows how to finish this off. But if the opponent 'slips' >and goes from a mate in N to a mate in N+x, then the counter resets. And it is >possible that at mate in 5 the opponent screwed up and reset the counter. I >don't worry enough about this since most computers don't resign at all... And >this doesn't happen often enough to count. IE one game a week maybe? Hello Bob, Thanks for the explanation. I know that after the thousands of games you have seen Crafty play on ICC you get a little hardened towards some of the antics of players/operators. This is understandable to me and I have been on ICC for less than 1 year. My account is "Semi-Automatic" in that I use CSTal-2 to run other programs. I watch every game played so it is never unattended. I have witnessed a few strange antics by players/operators myself. Some I can laugh at and others make me want to strangle someone. In a way you are fortunate that you don't watch all of Crafty's games as they are played. I'm sure you miss some cute comments from opponents at times. :-) Jim Walker
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