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Subject: Re: Move Ordering (Question, Fairly Long)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:37:25 12/25/99

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On December 25, 1999 at 13:27:45, John Hendrikx wrote:

>
>>>Now, I can think of the following four standard
>>>enhancements to a search function (there are
>>>probably some more):
>
>>>null move
>>>killer move
>>>extensions
>>>hash tables
>
>>I don't see 'capture moves'.  They are _critical_ and have to be done
>>before any other move (except hash table move).
>
>As it happens, I've started playing around with move-ordering as well,
>and giving priority to captures increased the speed by a factor of 3
>(I already made sure that the PV was the first move tried).
>
>I also found that trying pawn-moves (not captures) after all other moves
>gave me another nice speed up (about 30%).  Currently I have this order:
>
> 1. PV
> 2. Captures (ANY captures -- no SEE algorithm involved (yet))
> 3. Piece moves
> 4. Pawn moves
>
>No killer/history heuristic yet.
>
>I don't know if sorting Pawn Moves last will hold up in later stages of
>the game (I only tested the beginning) -- I could give Pawn Moves scores
>depending on how far up the board they are though...
>
>I've tried adding null-moves as well, but haven't been very succesful.  I
>need some more to go on before I can get it right, but I can't find good
>examples or descriptions of them.  So far what I've tried is to try a
>null-move before doing any real moves at a certain level of the tree, and
>searching the null-move to the same depth as usual; my problem is that I
>don't know what to do with the returned score.  From what I gathered one
>should create a cut-off when the score is 'not so good' even while doing
>two moves in a row.. it didn't work for me though.  It was far slower (1.5
>times) with the same results, and only a few dozen null-move cutoffs at
>6 plies orso.  When I increased the cut-off point by half a pawn in favor of
>more null-move cut-offs all I got was a bunch of very bad moves.
>
>What can one reasonably expect to win if one is allowed 2 moves in a row?
>Should null-moves be tried for both black and white?


The game.  IE I would be more than willing to play Kasparov if at one point
(of my choosing) in the game I can play two moves in a row.  That is a really
serious advantage.  If you reach a position where two moves in a row doesn't
cause you to fail high, your position is _bad_.


>
>>killers and history moves are similar.  history is a more global concept,
>>while killers are more local to specific parts of the tree.  I use both as
>>with killers you can try them before generating all the non-capture moves.
>
>>>If 1), how would you order the above in decreasing
>>>order of effectiveness?
>>
>>I do the following:
>>
>>1. hash table move
>
>Is that the same as the Principle Variation?

Yes and no.  While searching the PV, it is the same.  But in non-PV positions
it is simply the move that was found best in this position when it was entered
into the hash table...



>
>>2. captures with expected material gain >= 0 (using the classic SEE approach
>>to determine expected material gain).  moves are sorted by expected gain.
>>3. killer moves
>>4. 4 history moves
>>5. remainder of move list.
>
>John.



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