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Subject: Re: probable Kasparov ting.

Author: blass uri

Date: 01:35:56 01/11/00

Go up one level in this thread


On January 10, 2000 at 18:34:41, Mark Young wrote:

>On January 10, 2000 at 11:44:03, James Robertson wrote:
>
>>On January 10, 2000 at 00:56:19, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On January 10, 2000 at 00:20:31, James Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 10, 2000 at 00:15:09, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 10, 2000 at 00:01:34, Havergal Brian wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 09, 2000 at 23:40:42, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 09, 2000 at 23:00:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 09, 2000 at 22:13:03, Marc Plum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On January 09, 2000 at 17:43:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(snips)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Kasparov is in ChessBase's pocket.  However, from this point forward, since
>>>>>>>>>>we are going to continue to see this, I believe that I will simply choose to
>>>>>>>>>>say that "no more crafty versions will be available for ChessBase products".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If it is so bad, they really don't need it anyway.  If I see any future versions
>>>>>>>>>>on their web site, I will let my attorney do the talking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Obviously, you are entitled to do whatever you want with your program.  I
>>>>>>>>>appreciate your making this excellent program available for free.  It's nicer,
>>>>>>>>>IMHO, to use it in the ChessBase playing interfaces than within Winboard, but
>>>>>>>>>thanks for making it available as long as you have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That being said, I'm not sure why you seem to be blaming ChessBase for what this
>>>>>>>>>Dutch amateur said on Kasparov's web page.  Is there more information you could
>>>>>>>>>share that makes this clearer?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Marc Plum
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No...  And I am much less concerned now.  I had been sent a copy of excerpts
>>>>>>>>that seemed to imply that it was a chessbase or kasparov-like article.  Now I
>>>>>>>>see the actual author, and don't really care what his opinion is.  If you read
>>>>>>>>the article slowly and carefully, it looks idiotic anyway.  I'd have to have
>>>>>>>>my name on the 'byline'...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Glad to hear it, I was really confused how you were coming to some of your
>>>>>>>conclusions in your first post. I did not find the article anti-crafty, but you
>>>>>>>are correct it is a poorly written article with little value pro or con about
>>>>>>>any chess program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would have thought you would have read the original article before jumping to
>>>>>>>conclusions...but mistakes happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am amazed that you did not find the article to be "anti-crafty".  How about
>>>>>>reading the article again and concentrate on the top few paragraphs.
>>>>>
>>>>>I read the article, it has a paragraph giving the author's observation of crafty
>>>>>16.6. His observations are accurate in regards to Crafty 16.6 on a single
>>>>>processor. To make out the article as anti-crafty or venomous or the use of
>>>>>other such words is nonsense.
>>>>
>>>>He is obviously biased. He picks a tournament that supports his preconcieved
>>>>ideas on Crafty, and derives he strength estimate from that. But why not use the
>>>>tournament later in his article where Crafty comes ahead of other commercial
>>>>programs?
>>>>
>>>>This is the anit-Crafty writing we are talking about.
>>>
>>>I disagree, there is nothing anti-crafty about this since he put the good result
>>>in his article! It seems some are just pissed off that is one good result shown
>>>did not change is overall opinion of Crafty based on his overall impression of
>>>crafty's play. I also seen the one good result in the article, but I still
>>>concur with his opinion, because I own Crafty 16.6 also.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>James
>>
>>Ok, since you dismiss that, why not try another tack. Why does he even take time
>>to MENTION a supposedly weak FREE program IN AN ARTICLE ABOUT COMMERCIAL
>>PROGRAMS??
>>
>>It is the same as saying "here is my article about strong commercial programs.
>>I'm leaving out some commercial entrys because they are not strong enough (IE
>>LChess). But I definately have time to talk about how weak the free Crafty is."
>>
>>What kind of writing is that?
>>
>>James
>
>Let it go....a few words about crafty in a full page article does not make the
>article anti-crafty. He gave his opinion on a program you get for free when you
>BUY ALMOST ANY CHESS BASE PROGRAM. So I don't have a problem with him talking
>about crafty. And I will never understand your logic when the article shows a
>favoralbe result for crafty(that he did not have to put in) then you use this a
>proof that article is anti-crafty. Sorry it does not wash. He gave his opinion
>on Crafty 16.6 play running in a chessbase interface, and he is more then less
>accurate in his observations. If you think he is wrong about crafty 16.6 in
>chessbase post your own results that show otherwise. Last Night I started My own
>match to confirm his observation, playing at the same time control of game 30. I
>have 20 games played against Fritz 6 vs Crafty 16.6. The results are Fritz 6 15
>points Crafty 16.6 5 points. This is not an uncommon result for crafty playing
>ANY of the top commercial programs.

I am interested to know if there is a difference between crafty as a chessbase
engine and crafty as the original program with crafty's book.

I remember that crafty16.6 not as an engine for fritz lost 16:14 against Junior5
and 16:12 against Fritz5.32 in James walker games(I think they were 1 hour/game)

Crafty16.6 was weaker than the commercials of the same time if it has the same
hardware but there was no big difference like 17:5

Uri



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