Author: george petty
Date: 23:36:00 01/13/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 13, 2000 at 23:07:07, James Robertson wrote: >On January 13, 2000 at 22:49:11, Eugene Nalimov wrote: > >>IBM got something from Hsu (publicity) and gave him money to work on DB; > >Not publicity. Computer knowledge. Nobody (aside from the computer chess >community) knows who Hsu is. He could have been replaced at any time and DB >would still have continued. > >>Chesbase got something from Amir Ban (money from selling his program) and gave >>money to him. Yes, Amir had early version of his program before he came to >>Chessbase (or they came to him - doesn't matter in this context). Hsu and others >>had DT before IBM contract. Yes, DB is not DT, but current Junior also differs >>from the erlier one. >> >>So I still don't see the difference here. Or, to be more precise - the >>difference is the fact that Kasparov knows he can beat Deep Junior in the match. > >It is not a title match or even a match. > >Personnally, I think the most important clause in this entire issue is the one >of the challenger having a "tournament record". I think that Kasparov is afraid >to play something he cannot prepare for, and Hsu is afraid to reveal that DB is >not as "all-powerful" as many people were led (or decided) to believe. Instead >of the monster that we might imagine it was, it is in fact a very fast but >vulnerable program that has weaknesses and will have a certain number of losses >like the first DB had to Chessica. > >If DB plays a match with, say, Leko as a preemptory event and draws or loses, >all of the mystique of a super-machine facing the strongest human in the world >goes out the window, as obviously it is weaker than many humans. It is better >for Hsu to keep his machine under wraps and use its unknown play for publicity >and as a weapon. Very good James, I agree with you. Thats GOOD THINKING. George > >James > >> >>Eugene >> >>On January 13, 2000 at 22:22:28, James Robertson wrote: >> >>>On January 13, 2000 at 22:08:50, Eugene Nalimov wrote: >>> >>>>So it looks that Hsu and Kasparov's team disagree on exactly one issue: "is Hsu >>>>DB or not". >>>> >>>>If Hsu is not DB, then most of the letter makes sense. However, if Hsu *is* DB, >>>>than Kasparov just takes back his challenge. >>>> >>>>Hypotetical situation: Amir Ban decided that he doesn't want to distribute the >>>>Junior throug Chessbase, and went to the other distributor. After that Kasparov >>>>refuses to play Deep Junior in the previously agreed (at least in principle) >>>>match, saying that he wants to play with "Chessbase Junior", not just "Junior". >>>> >>>>Eugene >>> >>>It is different. Chessbase did not fund Junior's programming; it was a complete >>>program before they ever got their hands on it. I guess the question to answer >>>your question is "was IBM Deep Blue or not?" >>> >>>James >>> >>>> >>>>On January 13, 2000 at 20:20:48, Frederic Friedel wrote: >>>> >>>>>We received the following reaction to the open letter published by F.H. Hsu. It >>>>>is by Garry Kasparov’s manager Owen Williams. Garry himself is on a flight to >>>>>Holland, on his way to the GM tournament in Wijk aan Zee. The letter is also on >>>>>Mark Crowther's site, or will be there soon. >>>>> >>>>>Feng Hsiung Hsu's open letter is extraordinarily misleading and he demonstrates >>>>>a troubling ability to ignore certain responses and to take items out of context >>>>>or make them up and put them in his letter as facts. In his Open Letter he says: >>>>> >>>>>"...Owen never said a straight yes or no to my question of whether Kasparov was >>>>>interested in a match. " >>>>> >>>>>If you read the next paragraph, you will see his inability to read plain >>>>>English. On Nov. 30th, I had responded as follows: >>>>> >>>>>"With regard to a match against a computer, Garry would be happy to consider a >>>>>Challenge under the right circumstances with the rules carefully laid out." >>>>> >>>>>I went on to explain to Mr. Hsu that for Garry to consider a match, the >>>>>prizemoney would have to be substantial, that putting his World Title on the >>>>>line with an untried and untested opponent did not make any sense at all and >>>>>suggested politely but firmly that Mr. Hsu would have to get his program up and >>>>>running on his own or with a backer and then play many games including other >>>>>computer programs and to establish himself as THE CONTENDER. >>>>> >>>>>Obviously, Mr. Hsu did not like my answers very much, became belligerent and >>>>>made threats and even grandly imposed deadlines. >>>>> >>>>>On Dec. 3rd, amongst other things, I repeated to him: >>>>> >>>>>"Your tone is quite hostile and with angry people, I like to keep my responses >>>>>simple. Garry remains ready, willing and able to play a serious match against a >>>>>computer - under the right conditions." >>>>> >>>>>So persistent did Mr. Hsu become that on Dec. 21s I wrote to him: >>>>> >>>>>"He (Kasparov) will not be associated with an open letter like this. It is not >>>>>the way he does business and it would run counter to discussions he is having >>>>>with others." >>>>> >>>>>The next day Mr. Hsu sent a draft letter intended to go out openly soliciting >>>>>sponsors on his and Garry's behalf! >>>>> >>>>>On Dec. 23rd, I replied as follows: >>>>> >>>>> "I think that maybe I am not expressing myself very clearly. Mr. Kasparov does >>>>>not authorize you to say anything at all. I hope this is very clear." >>>>> >>>>>Incredibly, Mr. Hsu wrote once again, wanting Garry's authorization for another >>>>>letter. >>>>> >>>>>My last e-mail (in exasperation) was: >>>>> >>>>>"You continue making statements which are your words and not Garry's. Please >>>>>read what I have sent you very carefully." >>>>> >>>>>Effectively, Mr. Hsu had many strikes against him: >>>>> >>>>>* He behaved as if he was Deep Blue and we know he is not. >>>>> >>>>>* All he had was a computer chip with no organization or sponsor behind him. >>>>> >>>>>* Garry made it very clear that he was not going to give him time just to go on >>>>>a "fishing trip" for a year or two to try and attract sponsors or money. >>>>> >>>>>* His entire presentation was speculative and without substance. >>>>> >>>>>* He began almost immediately to make threats and he seemed to think, like many >>>>>before him, that all he had to do to get Garry to do his bidding, was to >>>>>threaten "exposure." >>>>> >>>>>* To summarize, he had no sponsor, no money, no entity and was entirely lacking >>>>>in any seriousness or credibility from a business point of view. >>>>> >>>>>Ironically, Mr. Hsu waited until two and a half years after the match to set up >>>>>a flurry of e-mails which almost from the beginning were threatening in nature. >>>>>On reflection, I firmly believe that he knew his offer had no credibility and he >>>>>was looking for a little publicity and some notoriety. >>>>> >>>>>For any of you who still think Mr. Hsu was above-board, just put yourself in his >>>>>position. Would you not have called up and said, "Hsu here. Let's put our >>>>>heads together and see if we can make this thing work." >>>>> >>>>>That's not a good idea if all you want out of this is to have a go at THE WORLD >>>>>CHAMPION! >>>>> >>>>>Owen Williams >>>>> >>>>>S.M.S.I. Inc., Palm Beach, FL.
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