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Subject: Re: Learning problems of Tiger

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 15:50:58 01/19/00

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On January 19, 2000 at 17:53:24, Bertil Eklund wrote:

>On January 19, 2000 at 17:23:13, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On January 19, 2000 at 13:01:19, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On January 18, 2000 at 16:35:35, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 18, 2000 at 16:30:15, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 18, 2000 at 10:32:51, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I noticed that sometimes Tiger keeps playing the same losing opening lines. In
>>>>>>the match Tiger-Hiarcs, games 6 and 10 are D10 openings, identical until 14...
>>>>>>e6, where Hiarcs shows an evaluation of 0.82 from its point of view. Tiger lost
>>>>>>them both. Games 17 and 19 were A45 lines that immediately out of book Hiarcs
>>>>>>evaluated as 0.57 in its favor. Again, Tiger lost both games. It seems that
>>>>>>there is a learner problem that will allow Tiger to play repeatedly the same
>>>>>>losing lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are right Enrique. This is not a bug, I would rather call it a design flaw.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have written a simple learning algorithm because I did not want to invest too
>>>>>much time in it. In fact I had almost no time to invest, so I have done my best
>>>>>in a very tight schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>>My philosophy has always been to put my efforts on the real stuff: the engine
>>>>>itself.
>>>>>
>>>>>But I'll have to work harder on the learning system, because as you have heard
>>>>>recently, Junior6 is badly taking advantage of this (I have heard it has
>>>>>repeated TWELVE TIMES the same won opening in one of the SSDF matches). :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>
>>>>Looks like you'll be doing some comp-comp testing in the future.  Welcome to the
>>>>Core Wars saga.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>Not necessarily. All I need is a learning algorithm that really knows how to
>>>avoid playing the same lost game twice, and maybe tries from time to time to
>>>replay a won game. That does not imply I'm going to buy 10 computers and let
>>>them play auto232 matches all day.
>>>
>>>Anyway I don't have enough money for that.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>The easiest defense against learners is to put a random element in your search
>>engine. If you think about it, that's not very different from what a wide book
>>would do for you.
>>
>>I think this can solve about 80% of the problem. The 100% solution is to have a
>>good book and a good learner.
>>
>>Amir
>
>Hi!
>
>Not in the games against your program, in fact Tiger played different in almost
>all of the 12 losses, but I think it was lost after the first own move after the
>opening, the other move it thought of for a long time, I think was equally bad.
>The only move that was correct weakened the pawns and I guess Tiger have a very
>high penality-score for this.
>
>Bertil

You mean Tiger played the same opening 12 times in 20 games it had the color in
this match ? Even a tiny book would give more variation. A learning opponent
can't make you to repeat an opening line. It chooses the moves for one side only
!

What was the opening line ?

Amir




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