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Subject: Re: TB's Basic Question

Author: Eugene Nalimov

Date: 21:40:35 01/22/00

Go up one level in this thread


On January 22, 2000 at 23:57:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 22, 2000 at 22:04:19, Len Eisner wrote:
>
>>On January 22, 2000 at 20:23:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 22, 2000 at 20:19:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>There is another way to handle this that might be better against
>>>humans:
>>>
>>>Do a minimax search to some depth, but probe the tablebases at each ply.
>>>Make the static eval return something like N-sum(opponent's non-losing
>>>moves).  The idea is that you would like to follow branches where the
>>>opponent has only one non-losing move at several points, hoping for one
>>>blunder to lose the game for him.
>>>
>>>I had code written for this, but never really finished testing it as the
>>>current approach is simpler...
>>
>>I like it . . .
>>
>>In playing through 5-piece endings in GM games, I noticed that even GM?s don?t
>>always find the single move that draws in those endings where only one move
>>holds the game.  It is incredibly difficult to find those moves without a
>>tablebase.
>>
>>Len
>
>
>Sometimes yes, sometimes no.   IE sometimes the only move is very obvious.
>Which is a real problem...  ie you _could_ reach a point where you choose
>between (a) and (b).  (a) has more positions where there is only one move
>that holds, but to a human they are very obvious.  (b) has fewer positions
>that hold, but they are much harder to find.  The problem is detecting which
>is which.  IE which kind of positions are hard for the human to find the one
>right move in, and which are easy.
>
>That isn't something that I think is very easy, yet...

Maybe with 6 man OTB things change - i.e. more moves become less obvious? When
I'll at last upload KRNKNN and KRBKNN (previous 2 times connection was broken
during transfer), you can make more clean experiment - try to let the program to
play those against GM. I think that somebody who is specialized on endgames
(e.g. Nunn) will be curious to try. That also can amswer the question about 50
moves rule - will human be able to stay for 50 moves when initial position is
e.g. "lost in 200".

Eugene



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