Author: Terry Presgrove
Date: 08:48:57 02/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 17, 2000 at 11:42:38, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>On February 17, 2000 at 11:35:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On February 17, 2000 at 11:32:35, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>
>>>On February 17, 2000 at 11:18:12, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 17, 2000 at 11:02:40, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 17, 2000 at 10:39:28, Mig wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is Mig Greengard, also of KasparovChess.com and, by the way, the mystery VP
>>>>>>mentioned by my good friend, basketball star Shay Bushinsky. I thought I would
>>>>>>add some comments and clarifications to what was unquestionably a total disaster
>>>>>>and also a very emotional situation for Shay and Amir, as well as Mickey Adams.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We've all been through about four hours of non-stop phone calls around the world
>>>>>>regarding this episode tonight. [Now last night, I wrote this late last night
>>>>>>but didn't want to post till I heard from Amir and/or Shay.] It was a lose-lose
>>>>>>situation for all concerned and Shay and Amir lost worse than the rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Before I go on it's VERY important to me to say that GM Adams behaved at all
>>>>>>times in a very sportsmanlike manner and in no way insisted on anything
>>>>>>unreasonable at any time. I don't really expect the audience here to see things
>>>>>>from a human player's point of view (!), but I do wish to stress that he was
>>>>>>accomodating until things just got out of hand at a very late hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Criticism, and there is plenty to go around, should be centered on
>>>>>>KasparovChess.com and our lack of proper documentation for the players. When
>>>>>>things broke down we had no real rule book to refer the players to, no list of
>>>>>>contingency plans or time limits for how long a communications breakdown should
>>>>>>be to be considered a forfeit, etc. So instead of simply referring to a rulebook
>>>>>>we had a nightmare of phonecalls and recrimination. As embarrassing as this poor
>>>>>>preparation is for me and all of us, I prefer it to seeing GM Adams undeservedly
>>>>>>criticized or rumors of conspiracy floated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As for human players, most of them are going to blame, and not necessarily
>>>>>>incorrectly, ANY AND ALL technology-related delays on us. That's because as
>>>>>>organizers we have an obligation to make sure things are working for each
>>>>>>player. If it's not, the levels of stress involved are not conducive to decent
>>>>>>chess, in a human. If both players had been human I believe everyone would have
>>>>>>had a different attitude. Discrimination against the machine? Probably, but as
>>>>>>it gets later and later, as nerves and five hours of tension build, a human is
>>>>>>at a severe disadvantage against a computer. Plus, it was Junior's connection
>>>>>>that went down. Adams, due to his ongoing match against Seirawan, was unable to
>>>>>>change dates without breaking his commitment to the organizers and sponsor
>>>>>>there, so really had no choice. Starting the second game at 7 p.m. with no
>>>>>>guarantee that there would be no further problems was not a serious option.
>>>>>>Eventually a deadline had to be set, he could not be expected to sit there
>>>>>>through dinner time on the edge of his seat waiting for the call to start play.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't want to air KC's dirty laundry in public as such, but actually I think
>>>>>>this forum could be a good one to get more ideas about how to solve such things
>>>>>>in the future and I hope Shay and Amir won't mind my butting in here on their
>>>>>>home turf. Plus, I agree with just about everything Shay says, I just want to
>>>>>>provide the full picture. More below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 16, 2000 at 19:38:09, Shay Bushinsky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dear people,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At this moment, I regret to say that my own company has decided to
>>>>>>>discriminate our Deep Junior project and to declare
>>>>>>>Michael Adams at his insistence to be the victor of our match.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This arbitrary decision was taken in spite of the ruling of the tournament
>>>>>>>official referee, Mr. Boris Postovisky, and was explained as the product
>>>>>>>of the inconvenience caused to Adams as a result of the delay incurred by
>>>>>>>our ISP slow connection which obviously was beyond our control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I really disagree with crediting Adams for insisting on anything. He was more
>>>>>>than willing to play the second game (and continue the first, he was not the one
>>>>>>who was cut off) until the delay ran into the evening. Unlike some of the
>>>>>>prima-donna GMs out there I found him very accomodating over the course of our
>>>>>>four phone conversations tonight. At the end he was simply hungry and tired and
>>>>>>wasn't going to play, and basically didn't understand that if his opponent
>>>>>>couldn't show up for two hours why he wasn't then forfeited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I should also add that due to the late hour in Russia IA Postovsky was not
>>>>>>present or observing the match in question and that due to his lack of Russian
>>>>>>Adams was unable to present his side of the situation. But of course playing the
>>>>>>game is always the best solution and if Adams wouldn't have been at such a large
>>>>>>disadvantage by the time things were ready, it should have been played.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In previous circumstances, when for instance Grandmaster Milos has disconnected
>>>>>>>for over 20 minutes during his game with Morozevich no forfeit was declared
>>>>>>>and the match was resumed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All above despite the fact that Mr. Adams himself had trouble connecting
>>>>>>>and the match was delayed for over 90 minutes mainly because of his
>>>>>>>computers not being able to connect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>True, but the bottom line is that unless we consider them intentional delays, KC
>>>>>>as organizer has a responsibility to avoid these technical problems. I was in
>>>>>>Bermuda for his first match and all went well, and I take responsibility for not
>>>>>>leaving things in sufficient order for them to avoid problems in the second
>>>>>>round. We tested everything with that same computer and had no problems at all.
>>>>>>That's technology. And when both players are human, both are getting tired and
>>>>>>nervous; no advantage is being gained by a long delay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is a very low point in our career as developers of Deep Junior
>>>>>>>and we apologize to all our fans and to the spectators who expected us to
>>>>>>>play a decent match.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey, Junior played a great match and everyone here knows it. And very few people
>>>>>>wanted to see you play Garry more than me. It would have been great to see and
>>>>>>incredibly great for the site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is a great embarrassment to the company I work for and to myself especially
>>>>>>>towards Amir Ban my partner and friend who is just an impartial participant in
>>>>>>>this event as any of the other players.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mr. Adams who initially agreed to our draw offer in the adjourned game (lost
>>>>>>>position for him) and was willing to continue and play a second game
>>>>>>>until he changed his mind and said that after speaking to a VP of our company
>>>>>>>was led to understand that he can claim a forfeit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Adams did accept the draw offer in the first game, and it will be recorded as a
>>>>>>draw. (He was of course completely lost, although Junior was exhibiting strange
>>>>>>time management as Amir mentions in his post.) The forfeit was the second game,
>>>>>>in which a delay of several hours took place. Adams never said he would continue
>>>>>>to wait all night and play whenever Junior was ready. He said he would play and
>>>>>>waited. By the time of the final phone call, and Carol Jarecki recorded the
>>>>>>clock times of the delays and many phone calls, it was almost two hours after
>>>>>>the first game was interrupted and he had just about had it. After four or five
>>>>>>rounds of calls by me to Shay in Israel and Adams in Bermuda, he said that he
>>>>>>wasn't going to play at all unless it could happen before 7pm (maybe it was 6pm,
>>>>>>I don't remember if we were talking NY time or Bermuda time). So I talked to
>>>>>>Shay again and asked how long it would take to get Junior back on the net and as
>>>>>>always he was honest and said he wasn't sure, that it could take 35 minutes to
>>>>>>get the modem installed, etc. He was the first to mention the word "forfeit" as
>>>>>>the potential consequence of the excessive delay. So when I talked to Mickey
>>>>>>again I said that in my opinion, if they couldn't get online before the hour it
>>>>>>would probably be considered a forfeit. No, I'm not an arbiter, but common sense
>>>>>>said that we couldn't expect him to sit there with no idea what was going on for
>>>>>>so long. Respect for all the players is very important. Adams in no way pushed
>>>>>>for a forfeit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In the end, I think seeing Adams play at that point, until nine at night or
>>>>>>later, and get slaughtered would not have left a very good taste in anyone's
>>>>>>mouth. And that assumes no further technical problems. If Junior's clock had
>>>>>>been ticking the entire time it would have lost game two on time. Of course it
>>>>>>wasn't Junior's fault, it worked great as Adams (and Illescas) found out. Amir
>>>>>>and Shay are clearly victims here, but no sword proved sharp enough to cut the
>>>>>>Gordian knot presented us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To sum up, please reserve your accusations and criticism for me and the rest of
>>>>>>the KC staff that never found the time to put together a comprehensive rulebook
>>>>>>that would have avoided the worst of this situation. The rulebook would have
>>>>>>something similar to "If one player disconnects for whatever reason and is
>>>>>>unable to resume play for XX minutes, that player will forfeit that game."
>>>>>>(Adjourning to another day would potentially be incredibly unfair depending on
>>>>>>the situation on the board and/or clock. Playing the next day was impossible in
>>>>>>this case regardless.) So Junior would most likely have been forfeited under the
>>>>>>rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>Adams would have been forfeited under the rules due to his inability to connect
>>>>>for over one hour in game 1. The fact that Junior had to forfeit and not Adams
>>>>>is incredibly unfair.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This is done and beyond repair. As some sort of compensation, and in the name of
>>>>>fairness and general interest, how about Junior playing a 2 game match against
>>>>>the winner of Kasparov's Grand Prix?
>>>>
>>>>I bet for an additional 100k$ that is no problem
>>>
>>>It shouldn't be a major problem and I can't think of a better way out of this
>>>mess. Let's wait for what KC and Mig have to say.
>>
>>>Enrique
>>
>>With near to 100% sureness we all know Kasparov is not gonna play that
>>match for free.
>
>I don't think you are right. It is Kasparov's Club, it is Kasparov's Grand Prix.
>In his best interest he should be ready to play Deep Junior and clear the mess
>as much as possible.
>
>Enrique
>
>>>>>Enrique
I do hope your right Enrique! It does appear to be a way out and probably
the only way out for them to save face on this issue.
TP
>>>>>
>>>>>> But it is to our great shame that no such rule exists and that it took
>>>>>>something as horrible as this to get it done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Suggestions about what this rulebook should contain are welcome. Professional
>>>>>>chess does have a future on the internet, but we have a ways to go and a lot to
>>>>>>learn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Saludos, Mig
>>>>>>
>>>>>>VP Content & Editor-in-chief
>>>>>>KasparovChess.com
>>>>>>mig@kasparovchess.com
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