Author: blass uri
Date: 12:45:26 03/07/00
Go up one level in this thread
On March 07, 2000 at 13:06:01, Jorge Pichard wrote: >On March 07, 2000 at 11:16:47, blass uri wrote: > >>On March 07, 2000 at 10:35:10, Jorge Pichard wrote: >> >>>On March 07, 2000 at 01:37:02, blass uri wrote: >>> >>>>On March 06, 2000 at 20:56:45, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 06, 2000 at 13:50:49, blass uri wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On March 06, 2000 at 12:24:55, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On March 06, 2000 at 01:18:05, blass uri wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On March 05, 2000 at 18:09:29, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Most Programs perform excellent whenever there is a tactical position, but some >>>>>>>>>programs perform better tactically than strategically. A good comparison is >>>>>>>>>between Rebel 10 or Tiger Rebel, which are very good programs strategically >>>>>>>>>compare to Deep Junior or Junior 6.0.which is very good tactically. But when you >>>>>>>>>match them Deep Junior 6.0 is a little bit better than either of the previous >>>>>>>>>mentioned programs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Why do you think that Junior6 is better in tactical positions relative to >>>>>>>>TigerRebel? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Junior6 searches more nodes per second but you cannot learn from it that it is >>>>>>>>better in tactics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I know that Rebeltiger did better results in enrique's test suite relative to >>>>>>>>Junior6. >>>>>>>>I know that most of the improvement from Junior5 to Junior6 was about the >>>>>>>>evaluation function. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>I am basing my oppinion on a small test between Junior 6.0 Vs Rebel Tiger 12e of >>>>>>>50 games in 60 minutes per side, using two identical AMD 800 Mhz and Junior 6.0 >>>>>>>won 28 games; probably the time control and speed of the computers used has a >>>>>>>lot to do with the result. It could be that Junior 6.0 calculate deeper than >>>>>>>Rebel Tiger 12e, providing faster processor and allowing a time control greater >>>>>>>than 60 minutes per side per game. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Pichard >>>>>> >>>>>>It is also possible that Junior6 had a better evaluation. >>>>>>You cannot learn from the fact that Junior6 won that it calculated deeper. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>>My friend who owned Rebel Tiger 12e knew before the mini match how to set his >>>>>program to play with the strongest setting I remember him setting his program to >>>>>this setting: >>>>> >>>>>Rebel Tiger 12e >>>>>Permanent Rrain ON >>>>>Analysis Brain OFF >>>>> >>>>>He bought his AMD Athlon 1 week before I did and since my old AMD computer was >>>>>too slow a K6 300 Mhz , he recommemded me to buy an AMD ATHLON 800 Mhz similar >>>>>to his; I was undicided wether to buy an Intel Pentium III 800 Mhz but just >>>>>because of the price and Performance difference and also due to the fact that he >>>>>decided to Bet a small fortune of $ 250.00 I agreed to buy it since we are both >>>>>programmers interested in the progress of chess softwares. We are facinated >>>>>to see how much progress chess softwares have accomplished lately. We would like >>>>>sometime to dedicate time to make our own chess Program, but our dedication to >>>>>Microsoft has enable us to program our own chess program, we understand that >>>>>chess programs have advance so much, that there is little that could be improve >>>>>nowaday except the capability of using Multiprosessors which Deep Junior 6.0 is >>>>>capable of using. >>>> >>>>I do not believe that there is a little that could be improved. >>>> >>>>I believe that if people develop the right program then even a program on 386 >>>>can beat kasparov >>>> >>>>Uri >>>Sorry but I disagreed with your logical reasoning. If you compare (Rebel 10, >>>Rebel tiger 12e or Deep Junior 6.0) to Deep Blue, any top programmer will assure >>>you that these programs have more Chess Knowledge than Deep Blue, >> >>Robert hyatt is a top programmer and I know that he does not agree that Deep >>blue has less knowledge in the evaluation but even if you are right about deep >>blue it does not prove that it is impossible to do a 386 program that can beat >>kasparov. >> >>I think also that knowledge is not only about the evaluation function but also >>abotu which lines to prune ans which lines to extend. >> >>programs are stupid about this and there is a lot to improve here. >> >>If you look at the thinking line of chessmaster6000 you can see that it >>considers most of the time stupid lines. >> >>Other program does not show the lines they consider but they are not clearly >>better than chessmaster6000 so I am sure they also consider most of the time >>stupid lines >> >>I believe that a 386 can beat kasparov if people develop the right program >>because of the fact that 386 is more than 100000 times faster than all humans. >> >>It is more than 100000 times faster than humans in adding big numbers or >>multiplying big numbers and the only reason that it is not better than kasparov >>in chess is that humans do not know to develop the best possible programs today. >> >>Uri >Sorry Again but the Human brian has not been match with any supercomputer yet >and it will not be in the near 10 years. In calculating number there is no >questions that a Simple 386 can beat any human, but the computer is only a >device or a tool. There is no computer capable of building another computer yet, This is different. Building another computer is not something that computers were designed to do but computers have the tools to play chess. >that is where a supercomputer with the capability of our Human brain come into >place. That is why we have computer engineers and computer programmers that make >this wonderful computers easy for operator like yourself to interact with them >without spending 6 months programming the statements. > >Ps: Knowledge is good but it has to be combine with strength. example an 8 years >old kid could be a martial artist with a black belt, but he could never beat an >18 years healthy boy who has never had a lesson in martial art or boxing or >wretling etc... Another example take the early fritz 4 and use it with an AMD >ATHLON 800 mhz Vs the latest Fritz 6.a and use it with 386 which you mentioned. >you will be surprise to find out that Fritz 4 would beat it 60% of the time. I will not be surprised to see that Fritz4 with AMD ATHLON 800 mhz is better than Fritz6a with 386 because Fritz6a is stupid like all programs because humans are stupid and do not know to develop the right chess programs. I can see many stupid mistakes that programs often do in their search and this is the reason that I think of developing a new chess program. The only problem is that I am not a good programmer and I do not want to give my ideas for free when another person is going to do money from them and I will get nothing from it. I do not believe that my ideas are enough for a 386 to beat kasparov because I am also too stupid but I believe that if a good programmer combine my ideas with the ideas of crafty then it will be possible to do a program that is more than 200 elo better than crafty. Uri
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