Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 09:01:14 03/26/00
Go up one level in this thread
On March 25, 2000 at 21:22:35, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>On March 25, 2000 at 17:35:27, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On March 25, 2000 at 13:16:02, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On March 25, 2000 at 11:49:38, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 25, 2000 at 08:22:14, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>suppose you give Fritz6a pentium90(the hardware that Fritz3 used when it won the
>>>>>world championship)and give it to play against Fritz3 with the best hardware
>>>>>that it can use today.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which program is going win at tournament time control?
>>>>>The same question is for other programs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do most programmers did bigger software improvement or the main reason that
>>>>>their program has better rating is the hardware improvement?(I do not include
>>>>>beginners who did mainly software improvements and I do not include people who
>>>>>did not work or almost did not work on improving their programs in the last
>>>>>years).
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that Genius3 had a clear advantage against other programs some years ago
>>>>>and the fact that the programmer did almost nothing to improve his program is
>>>>>the reason that hardware was dominant in 1994-1997 if you look at the best
>>>>>program.
>>>>>(I mean only to programs that people can buy and I ignore cray blitz or deep
>>>>>thought).
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason that people in the israeli league decided that programmers has no
>>>>>right to do upgrade is that they were afraid that programs will get 200 elo
>>>>>improvement by an upgrade.
>>>>>
>>>>>I explained rami tal that I think that most of the improvement in the last years
>>>>>if you look only at the best program are by hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>I explained him that theoretically it is possible to do 200 elo improvement but
>>>>>practically this thing does not happen and an upgrade can probably give
>>>>>something like 0.5 point in 10 games.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>I think software and hardware go hand in hand but that all the hardware
>>>>speed-up of the past years is by far superior to software changes. This
>>>>has been the case since day one and I wonder if it will ever change.
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>
>>>I remmeber that Amir Ban claimed in the past that half of the improvement is
>>>software and half is hardware.
>>>
>>>I see from the ssdf list that there is a significant difference between Junior5
>>>and Junior6 and it seems that in this case the hardware improvement is really
>>>close to be equal to the software improvement(I do not include using more than
>>>one processor in my comparison because the ability to use more than one
>>>processor is also part of the software)
>>>
>>>Maybe the fact that you work with christophe is also going to help Rebel-tiger
>>>also to get similiar results.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Certainly. For example I estimate that Chess Tiger has improved by roughly 70
>>elo points between mid '98 and mid '99. Part of this improvement comes from my
>>cooperation with Ed, and another part comes from my personal work.
>>
>>Trying and testing new ideas is a very long process. I think that so far I have
>
>Yes, I too have a huge number of ideas that I haven't had time to implement and
>test...
Trying and testing a lot of things is IMO the key of success in our little
experimental science. It takes 80% of my time.
>>been able to use only 10% of the ideas that came from my discussions with Ed.
>>That leaves room for further improvements, believe me!
>
>Out of interest, what language to you and Ed use to discuss chess programming
>ideas? Dutch, French, or English?
We speak in english. Mine is not good, but Ed has no problem. In the
netherlands, I noticed that almost everybody speaks english. Amazing. In France,
very few people speak english. A shame. We are really stupid.
Christophe
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