Author: Bertil Eklund
Date: 22:24:18 03/27/00
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On March 27, 2000 at 09:53:57, Ed Schröder wrote: >On March 27, 2000 at 09:06:01, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On March 25, 2000 at 23:13:49, Tina Long wrote: >> >>>On March 25, 2000 at 14:28:13, James Robertson wrote: >>> >>>>On March 25, 2000 at 13:41:28, Roger wrote: >>>> >>>>>Would tablebases for Tiger have changed this result at all? >>>>> >>>>>Roger >>>> >>>>Maybe a quarter of a point.... My experience with tablebases is that if the >>>>program is moderately smart it doesn't benefit tremendously from them. >>>> >>>>James >>>> >>>Ed Schroder said about 6 months ago that Tablebases were worth about 10 points >>>on the SSDF scale. >>> >>>I'm 70% sure he said that! I'm 100% sure that Ed said once that something was >>>worth very little rating points. >>> >>>I'm glad I could add some real detail to this discussion. >>> >>>Tina Long >> >> >>Ed is wrong there. it is _amazing_ how many comp vs comp games end up in >>krp vs kr, with the side without tablebases losing most of those. There are >>other endings too (KQP vs KQ, see for example crafty vs nimzo in the ICCT >>tournament last month). >> >>The wrong way to test this is to play A with, vs A without. the right way to >>test this is A without vs B without, then A with vs B without. But A ought to >>be reasonably close to B without tablebases... > >Tablebases have a great future no doubt. But what is available at the >moment (4-5 pieces) its value for Rebel is not more than 5-10 elo I >would say because: > >a) most cases are simply covered by chess knowlegde; > >b) the loss of speed during search because of all the >disc access. > >So I don't think I am wrong when the subject is Rebel. > >Things might change dramatically when for instance the complete >6 pieces become available. +100 elo easily for chess programs. > >Ed Hi! I agreed totally with you some months ago but todays best programs uses the TBs in the search very efficient. In example Hiarcs and Nimzo began to find the Tbs with 10-11 pieces on the board (tournament time) but today Crafty, Fritz6, Junior6 and Shredder4 find the TBs with 15-16 pieces on the board. These four programs are probably the best in endgames, only Tiger without TBs come close. I guess the above programs earns 25-50 elo with TBs. Bertil
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