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Subject: Re: Computer Correspondence Chess Challenge

Author: blass uri

Date: 09:02:06 04/01/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 01, 2000 at 11:49:01, Vincent Lejeune wrote:

>On April 01, 2000 at 10:32:52, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On March 31, 2000 at 23:17:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On March 31, 2000 at 12:53:43, Stephen Ham wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dear Readers,
>>>>
>>>>I know many of you are actively following my ongoing match games versus Fritz 6a
>>>>and Nimzo 7.32. For those of you not familiar with the event, please visit:
>>>>
>>>>http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/index.htm
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, a frequent poster here (name is withheld) wrote to Mr. Campbell stating
>>>>that since the chess engines are displaying their top 3 choices, they are being
>>>>weakened "a lot". No explanation was given for that claim.
>>>>
>>>>Would somebody here please provide a detailed explanation regarding whether this
>>>>claim is correct and why?
>>>
>>>
>>>It depends on how they compute these variations.  Done correctly, it is
>>>_horribly_ inefficient.  If you watch a normal search, the first move will
>>>usually take over 50% of the total time.  The remaining N-1 moves take the
>>>remaining 50% of the time.  If you have it display two 'best'moves, you
>>>increase the total search time by roughly 50%.  The first move takes the
>>>same time as before.  The second move also takes the same time as before,
>>>and the final N-2 moves take just a tad less than before.  Net loss is
>>>ugly.  If you have it display the best 3 moves, you slow it down by exactly
>>>a factor of two...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The chess engines are on settings recommended by ChessBase USA as their optimal
>>>>settings for this event. My extremly limited understanding is that displaying
>>>>the top 3 choices does indeed affect the chess engines, but it causes them to
>>>>spend more time on what it believes to be the 3 best moves. As such, this sounds
>>>>like an enhancement to me. Given that the chess engines are allowed about 24
>>>>hours calculation time on weekdays and are searching to 16-18 ply, I can't
>>>>imagine that this weakens them in any way.
>>>
>>>
>>>Each iteration will take about 2x longer than the previous.  Rather than
>>>a branching factor of 3x, you raise it to 6x.  This will cost several plies
>>>over 24 hours.
>>
>>My experience with chessbase engines show that it is not the case.
>>I also see no reason that the branching factor will change.
>>
>>The program is going to be slower by a constant factor by calculating the first
>>3 moves.
>>The only difference relative to calculating only the best move is that you need
>>to use time to calculate the second best move and the third best moveand I do
>>not see a reason to be more than 3 times slower.
>>
>>The only case when the branching factor is going to be bigger is if you generate
>>a tree of moves and not only the best 3 moves.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I think you're wrong : check depth after 1 minute with 1st best move and once
>again with 5 best moves, my Hiracs 7.32 clearly slows ...

I did not say that the depth is the same but that the branching factor is the
same.

The question if time for depth 10 divided by time for depth 9 is bigger when you
use 5 options.

Uri



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