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Subject: Re: tablebases Fritz problem

Author: Bertil Eklund

Date: 14:32:39 04/04/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 04, 2000 at 15:34:59, Jeremiah Penery wrote:

>On April 04, 2000 at 15:15:27, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>
>>On April 04, 2000 at 05:18:53, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On April 04, 2000 at 03:36:48, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 04, 2000 at 02:37:26, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 04, 2000 at 02:17:14, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You see the result: worthless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Suggestions:
>>>>>>>1) only use all 3-man and 4-man TBs and leave the few 5-man from the
>>>>>>>EG-Turbo-CDs out.
>>>>>>>2) get/buy/generate the 5-man with queen(s) because of pawn promotion
>>>>>>>3) get/buy/generate ALL 5-man so you get REAL and MAXIMUM performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The EG-Turbo-CDs aren't worth a penny. "...contain the most important
>>>>>>>endgames..." is marketing rubbish as you can see yourself with such games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Totally nonsense, I have followed houndreds of games with the Turbo-CDs and
>>>>>>usually it works excellent. The CDs contain almost all important endings and if
>>>>>>you want to earn say a ½ elo or support Seagate or IBM you can fill them with
>>>>>>the other mostly obscure endgames.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bertil
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that the main reason that it work excellent is that the opponent usually
>>>>>resigns before going to endgame like KRQ vs KR
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>>
>>>>I haven't checked the above game but I haven't seen a program that can not win
>>>>with queen and rook against rook.
>>>>
>>>>Bertil
>>>
>>>The problem is that Fritz does not go to this endgame because this endgame is
>>>not in the tablebases and it prefers a to do a draw by avoiding this endgame.
>>>
>>>Fritz does not know to stop using the tablebases when they tell it that the
>>>distance to mate does not decrease and because of this reason it needs the
>>>KRQ vs KR tablebases.
>>>
>>>If you do not give it this tablebases then programs that never resign can get
>>>better result and I do not like it.
>>>
>>>I do not think that customers are interested more in a program only because they
>>>never resign.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>Hi!
>>
>>I have checked the game now and the draw has nothing to do with missing
>>tablebases, Fritz6 draw the game because some error in the tablebase handling,
>>as you can see the number of moves to mate goes up and down.
>>I checked the position with Shredder4 (with exactly the same TBs from
>>Chessbase), and S4 wins without any problems.
>
>The mate numbers go up and down because when Fritz could promote the pawn into a
>won KRQKR ending it didn't, because it did not have the appropriate TB.
>Instead, it preferred to stay in the TB, even though the distance to mate was
>not decreasing.  What it was doing was finding the shortest mate it could find
>(in the TBs it had), and sometimes this was a longer one than on the previous
>move.
Hi!

I have checked this with Junior6 and it wins easily, in example move 95 Junior6
plays Rc7 with aforced win. Same tablebases.

Bertil



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