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Subject: Re: Solution is to revise the rules! FIDE did it before, then it reverted ..

Author: blass uri

Date: 12:30:55 04/05/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 05, 2000 at 14:39:31, KarinsDad wrote:

>On April 05, 2000 at 11:47:43, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On April 05, 2000 at 10:01:53, KarinsDad wrote:
>>
>>>On April 05, 2000 at 03:55:21, Peter Kappler wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>The 50 move rule is a bogus rule anyway. The reason it is bogus is that the
>>>>>Fischer time controls are bogus.
>>>>
>>>>You lost me there.  Fischer time controls have nothing to do with the advent of
>>>>the 50-move rule.  The 50-move rule was around long before Fischer time controls
>>>>became popular.
>>>>
>>>>--Peter
>>>
>>>Agreed. I should have not said the "reason it is bogus". The 50 move rule was
>>>bogus when introduced. I liked the concept of 2 people, x amount of time, if you
>>>got yourself into a position where the 50 move rule could be applied and had
>>>little time on your clock, too bad. Try to find a draw by rep. Otherwise, your
>>>flag may fall.
>>>
>>>GMs tend to think of chess as the game itself, separate from the clock. They try
>>>to pretend that there is some artistic quality that time controls stifle. I do
>>>not understand this when 60% or more of GM games are draws anyway.
>>>
>>>Time control SHOULD be part of the game. The 50 move rule takes away from
>>>winning, drawing, or losing in x amount of time. Fischer rules also take away
>>>from this. In fact, you cannot have Fischer rules WITHOUT the 50 move rule or
>>>else a game could go on indefinitely.
>>
>>You can have fisher rules without the 50 move rule because there is no rule that
>>the game must end.
>
>
>Well, most people have a life. They have to eat. They have to sleep. So, having
>indefinite timed games just does not make any sense, especially at tournaments.
>
>
>>
>>Your ideas against fisher time control are going to produce more mistakes when
>>the sides are on time trouble.
>
>
>So? Why do we want a welfare society in a competitive environment like chess?
>Chess should be competition, aggression, cunning. It shouldn't be an environment
>of giving everyone a helping hand to do their best or protecting themselves from
>themselves.
>
>The fight should be the thing. Not the ability to fight on.
>
>
>>
>>I support the old time control of something like 2 hours/40+2 hours/40+2
>>hours/40 because I want better games.
>
>
>What is the definition of "better games"? If someone plays at G5+5, they will
>probably have "worse games" than G60. If someone plays at correspondence, will
>they necessarily have "better games" than at 2 hours/40+2 hours/40+2 hours/40?
>
>Making mistakes is part of the game. If you wanted a game without mistakes, you
>should play tic tac toe.

I know that making mistakes is part of the game and there are mistakes also in
correspondecne games but the point is that I prefer games without big mistakes.
>
>
>>>
>>>Hence, the 50 move rule was bogus to begin with and the Fischer rules came along
>>>and supported a non-existent NEED for the 50 move rule.
>>
>>The need was existent because people wanted better games.
>
>
>The need was more basic than that. GMs were taking a long time in games on early
>moves and finding out that they were in time trouble later. Since they had a
>difficult time with time management, they wanted to add rules to prevent
>themselves from losing games that were effectively drawn (if you discount the
>clock). It is an ego thing (which of course relates to fame, money, standing,
>etc.), not a "I want to give the world better games" thing.

No

I know that a long time ago there was no clock in the game and when people
started to use the chess clock the time control in tournament was not x
hours/game but something like 2 hours/40 moves+2 hours/40 moves+2 hours/40
moves+....

The decision to use 2 hours/40 moves+1 hour/game is new.

I heard the reason for it is the fact that the game is not exactly games of
humans when humans can use computers to help them in adjourned games and having
a better program and a faster computer is an advantage.

I do not understand this reason because in the past humans could use friends to
help them in adjourned games and having better friends was an advantage.


<snipped>
>But, the Fischer time controls suddenly come along and really change things.

It does not changes things because 2 hours/40 +2 hours/40+2 hours/40+...
was a long time ago a common kind of time control.


>Now, a certain style of play is rewarded (the person who plays slowly and well)
>whereas other styles of play are actually penalized (the person who plays
>quickly and well) since some of that person's competition was given a reward
>which did not necessarily benefit him/her.

playing quickly and well get rewarded because there are blitz tournaments and GM
win money prizes based on their result in 5 minutes/game.

Uri



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