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Subject: Re: Shredder in the SSDF list

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:45:15 04/12/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 12, 2000 at 12:16:59, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On April 12, 2000 at 10:28:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On April 12, 2000 at 04:54:39, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On April 12, 2000 at 03:51:56, Ritter Rost wrote:
>>>
>>>>>And I'm just saying again, "What does it matter to you?"
>>>>
>>>>I am interested in an independent and strong SSDF which does not have to fear
>>>>legal threats if they want to publish test results. This matters a lot to me.
>>>>
>>>>>Are you being bullied or prosecuted - No
>>>>>Are the people being "bullied & prosecuted" publishing the results anyway - Yes.
>>>>
>>>>No they are not. See several posts of Bertil Eklunds on the matter. Ossi Weiner
>>>>forbade them to publish the results of Genius, Zarkov and WChess.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My view from here is you are Anonomously trying to bring a private conflict into
>>>>>a public forum.
>>>>
>>>>For computer chess the authenticity and independence of the SSDF as the only
>>>>major testing institution is not a private matter. Nor is the behaviour of the
>>>>major software publishers.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The major achievement of this is a lot of discussion about the legality of your
>>>>>original post & the possibility that CCC or the Moderators could be in legal
>>>>>trouble because of Your post.
>>>>
>>>>CCC is a healthy, strong and commercially independent forum which can survive a
>>>>little controversy as long as it remains free of _personal_ attacks, Tina. Some
>>>>excitement here and there may even help to raise the number of visits/members.
>>>>
>>>>Furthermore there is no need to refer to my unthoughtful original post which has
>>>>been thankfully deleted. I am simply quoting SSDF member Bertil Eklund in this
>>>>thread.
>>>>
>>>>Bottom line: I would like the SSDF to be allowed to publish all test results. At
>>>>the moment this is not the case. Bertil Eklund said that Ossi Weiner asked them
>>>>to suppress the results of Genius, Zarkov and WChess,
>>>>
>>>>Ritter
>>>
>>>I agree with your entire post.
>>>
>>>What I don't understand is why Ossi doesn't want the results of these programs
>>>published. They're all strong programs and I expect they would all end up within
>>>a few points of the top program. It seems like that would be terrific
>>>advertising for Ossi & co.
>>>
>>>-Tom
>>
>>
>>If you read the email posted here, the answer is obvious.  He believes that
>>the auto232 software gives programs the opportunity to bias the results by
>>various means (several have reported moves played under auto232 that are
>>absolutely impossible to reproduce in testing.)
>
>I did read the e-mail, but I dismissed the reason as BS. If Ossi was really so
>pissed about autoplayer trickery, he wouldn't have eventually allowed Shredder's
>results in the list. And if I were him and I was convinced cheating was going
>on, I would raise the issue (LOUDLY) in a public forum. If I had solid evidence,
>a lot of people would get pissed at my competition...
>
>-Tom


There _is_ a body of anecdotal evidence that suggests that auto232 both (a) has
problems and (b) is subject to abuse.  Several have looked at SSDF games where a
program makes an outright blunder than can never be reproduced.  Others have
reported about trickery in using auto232 to bumfuzzle the opponent's learning,
or break off a lost game, etc...

Whether it happens  a lot, a little, or not at all I can't say.  But where there
is smoke there is fire.  Or in this case "trash".  :)

Auto232 is trash.



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