Author: Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
Date: 09:54:59 04/14/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 14, 2000 at 12:46:43, Bertil Eklund wrote: >On April 14, 2000 at 10:57:27, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote: > >>On April 14, 2000 at 09:39:16, Bertil Eklund wrote: >> >>>On April 14, 2000 at 06:01:30, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote: >>> >>>>On April 13, 2000 at 17:21:26, blass uri wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 13, 2000 at 13:37:13, Thorsten Czub wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 12, 2000 at 21:56:06, Dave Gomboc wrote: >>>>>>>I suspect that Millennium GmbH would have an extremely tough time winning in >>>>>>>court against the SSDF if they did publish results for Genuis 6.5, WChess, etc. >>>>>>>Nonetheless, it appears that they feel that bullying independent citizen groups >>>>>>>is a successful marketing strategy. I can only shake my head. >>>>>> >>>>>>look : ssdf published results that are not played out on the base >>>>>>of a fair competition. the results have been influenced by the autoplayer >>>>>>device. >>>>>> >>>>>>millennium company has nothing against a fair competition. >>>>>>if the ssdf e.g. would (as they have done over the years with the dedicated >>>>>>machines) >>>>>>test by hand, nobody would complain. >>>>>>but they use the chessbase autoplayer device. >>>>>>the results of this device differ from the device other companies use. >>>>>>therefore the results are somehow irrelevant. >>>>>>but the ssdf do nowhere print in their publications that their results >>>>>>have been "arranged" or "generated" with the >>>>>>chessbase autoplayer device which is not generally trusted by agreement >>>>>>of all programmer paricipating in the list. >>>>>>they do only publish numbers. stupid numbers. >>>>>>i see no other way for millennium company to forbid to publish those silly >>>>>>data, than threatening them. licence agreements in europe do count for swedish >>>>>>people to. you can believe me. it might be different in US, but many things >>>>>>are different in US. >>>>>> >>>>>>i would do exactly the same if it would be my product. >>>>>>if somebody would publish lies about my girl-friend or lies about my >>>>>>friends, he would get also similar kind of answer. >>>>>>printing lies is not a fair way of competition and not a fair way >>>>>>of an "independant organisation". >>>>> >>>>>Printing games and results of games is not printing lies. >>>>>If the autoplayer of chessbase help chessbase then it is important to prove it >>>>>but I saw no proof for it. >>>>>The fact that you get different results may be because you do not use the same >>>>>hardware and is not a proof that the autoplayer of chessbase helps chessbase. >>>>> >>>>>The ssdf guys tested shredder4 and sent all the games with logfiles to the >>>>>programmer and stefan found no problem with the results. >>>>>shredder4 is probably number 3 after Fritz and Junior. >>>>> >>>>>Stefan has no problem with printing the games and the results of shredder4 but >>>>>the ssdf do not want to give information about shredder if they have not the >>>>>right to print information about other programs of the millenium. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>I didn't get any log file. >>>>Stefan >>>Hi! >>> >>>You received the games in both pgn and cbv-format. Have you found anything >>>strange in the games? >>> >>>Bertil >> >>Yes, I have received about 75 games of Shredder but haven't checked them yet. >>Some programs really have improved during the last months so I am busy working >>on Shredder. This is my main target right now, if I have some time left I'll >>check the games but I don't expect any problems. >> >>I give you a recent example of some autoplayer problems. This is part of an >>email I wrote today. I didn't want to publish it first but it might help here. >> >>"You know about the autoplayer and all of its weaknesses, just this morning I >>had a strange behaviour again. I was playing vs. X when X send the save game >>command to Shredder 3 times in a row. The result was that Shredder saved the >>last game 3 times and adjusted the display of the match result according to >>that. Well, Shredder won, so he got 3 points instead of 1 for the game :-) If >>you don't look very carefully at all the games played with the autoplayer you >>can get all sorts of wrong results." > >Hi! > >As I have told you and mr Weiner several times, we partly follows most games and >check the results of every game. In example Tony Hedlund is a very good player >and played in the last Swedish correspondence Championship, Bo Aurell another >tester played in the Swedish Championship in the sixties and I think they can >see if there are any anomalies. I don't know what persons that test your >programs, are they only reporting the scorenumbers? I have now played 122 >tournament games with S4 with only two stops, one game where Hiarcs stopped >within the opening book and one game where S4 played only one move (1.d4) and >saved the game as a win for itself, Nimzo saved it as an unexpected end. > >So far I can't see what the problem is. S4 has won against Hiarcs and Nimzo and >looks to crush Tiger (my games). Only one bad loss against F6 a program that >many people believe is the best for the moment. > >If we had been allowed to test S4 when it was new it had probably been number >one for some time. I believe S4 belongs in the group of Junior6 and Tiger that >fights for the second place. It looks like Fritz6a have made a big step forward >and I believe it is the best program for the moment. > >I also think that we have been fair against S4 allowing it to use the Turbo-cds, >that seems to be much more efficient than the original Thomson-CDs. > >Bertil > >>End of quote. >>I have just changed the name of the program involved as I don't want to blame >>anybody. >> >>Stefan I didn't complain that you have treated Shredder unfair and also don't think so. For me there is no problem. Also I didn't say storys like the one above happen at the ssdf. I just wanted to point out that there is so much that can go wrong using the autoplayer. Stefan
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