Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 07:11:13 04/16/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2000 at 10:05:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On April 16, 2000 at 04:33:18, Jason Williamson wrote: > >>On April 15, 2000 at 23:22:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On April 15, 2000 at 13:59:26, Tony Hedlund wrote: >>> >>>>On April 14, 2000 at 12:54:59, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 14, 2000 at 12:46:43, Bertil Eklund wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 14, 2000 at 10:57:27, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Yes, I have received about 75 games of Shredder but haven't checked them yet. >>>>>>>Some programs really have improved during the last months so I am busy working >>>>>>>on Shredder. This is my main target right now, if I have some time left I'll >>>>>>>check the games but I don't expect any problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I give you a recent example of some autoplayer problems. This is part of an >>>>>>>email I wrote today. I didn't want to publish it first but it might help here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"You know about the autoplayer and all of its weaknesses, just this morning I >>>>>>>had a strange behaviour again. I was playing vs. X when X send the save game >>>>>>>command to Shredder 3 times in a row. The result was that Shredder saved the >>>>>>>last game 3 times and adjusted the display of the match result according to >>>>>>>that. Well, Shredder won, so he got 3 points instead of 1 for the game :-) If >>>>>>>you don't look very carefully at all the games played with the autoplayer you >>>>>>>can get all sorts of wrong results." >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi! >>>>>> >>>>>>As I have told you and mr Weiner several times, we partly follows most games and >>>>>>check the results of every game. In example Tony Hedlund is a very good player >>>>>>and played in the last Swedish correspondence Championship, Bo Aurell another >>>>>>tester played in the Swedish Championship in the sixties and I think they can >>>>>>see if there are any anomalies. I don't know what persons that test your >>>>>>programs, are they only reporting the scorenumbers? I have now played 122 >>>>>>tournament games with S4 with only two stops, one game where Hiarcs stopped >>>>>>within the opening book and one game where S4 played only one move (1.d4) and >>>>>>saved the game as a win for itself, Nimzo saved it as an unexpected end. >>>>>> >>>>>>So far I can't see what the problem is. S4 has won against Hiarcs and Nimzo and >>>>>>looks to crush Tiger (my games). Only one bad loss against F6 a program that >>>>>>many people believe is the best for the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>>If we had been allowed to test S4 when it was new it had probably been number >>>>>>one for some time. I believe S4 belongs in the group of Junior6 and Tiger that >>>>>>fights for the second place. It looks like Fritz6a have made a big step forward >>>>>>and I believe it is the best program for the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>>I also think that we have been fair against S4 allowing it to use the Turbo-cds, >>>>>>that seems to be much more efficient than the original Thomson-CDs. >>>>>> >>>>>>Bertil >>>>>> >>>>>>>End of quote. >>>>>>>I have just changed the name of the program involved as I don't want to blame >>>>>>>anybody. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Stefan >>>>> >>>>>I didn't complain that you have treated Shredder unfair and also don't think so. >>>>>For me there is no problem. Also I didn't say storys like the one above happen >>>>>at the ssdf. I just wanted to point out that there is so much that can go wrong >>>>>using the autoplayer. >>>>> >>>>>Stefan >>>> >>>>I must disagree on this. I've played thousands of games with the autoplayer, and >>>>I would say that it's very, very little that goes wrong with it. >>>> >>>>Tony >>> >>> >>>I disagree with your disagreement. :) >>> >>>_Any_ piece of software that is dependent on timing delays and such is a piece >>>of trash. It turns the interface into a synchronous operation when it should >>>work asynchronously. trash for an interface. Compare it to the winboard >>>interface that has _no_ timing issues between an engine and the interface... >>>No way to lose a message, get multiple copies of the message, etc... >>> >>>maybe I insulted the trash of the world, when I think about it. :) >> >>hmm one gets the impression that Bob isn't very fond of autoplayer ;))) > > >How would you like a piece of software that requires the following: > >(1) a variable delay added so that if you want to move _instantly_ you have >to delay for some number of milliseconds or auto232 will miss the move and the >game hangs. > >(2) the delay has to change when in endgame databases as the probes cause a >large number of interrupts that change the timing in ways I never could predict, >which would again cause the game to hang. > >(3) gives the opponent the ability to tell you to 'save game' and such at any >time the opponent wants, even if it is _your_ move. > >(4) requires tampering with the delay when you change to a faster machine. Or >if you add more tablebases. Or if you remove some. > > >The communication protocol should be totally asynchronous, as in winboard. How >it was written to have these problems I wouldn't venture a guess... A techno-nightmare, or so it seems. But, ugly as it may be, it works just great and has been an immensely useful tool. Enrique
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.