Author: James T. Walker
Date: 06:02:36 04/22/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 21, 2000 at 19:06:59, pete wrote: >On April 21, 2000 at 16:58:08, Jeremiah Penery wrote: > >>On April 21, 2000 at 08:56:55, James T. Walker wrote: >> >>>On April 21, 2000 at 03:08:38, Angrim wrote: >>> >>>>On April 20, 2000 at 08:34:05, James T. Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hello Bob, >>>>>Interesting as it is, I think that to get a real feel for Crafty's strength on >>>>>ICC you need to change Crafty's formula to "Formula=rated". >> >>>>another point, if "Formula=rated" here are the results I predict: >> >>>>game 1. crafty is matched to a game of 3 0 wild17(losers chess) and of >>>> course loses it. >>>>game 2. crafty is matched to a game of 3 3 blitz by a 1200 and wins 0 pts >>>>game 3-50 same as game 2. >>>>game 51. crafty is matched to a game of 3 0 crazyhouse and loses by flag >>>>since it doesn't understand the rules. >>>>game 52. crafty is matched to a game of 9999 999 by a 1400 who plays the >>>>first few moves of a game, then when crafty leaves book and starts >>>>thinking leaves on vacation with his account logged in(cable modem). >>>>Two days later Bob gets ICC admins to abort the game, even though the >>>>1400 still has plenty of time left on his clock. >>>> >>>>Angrim - Whose comp has 9 lines of formula on FICS >>> >>I was of course >>>talking about "CHESS". What the hell does aborting a game have to do with >>>anything??? Who mentioned anything about 9 lines of formula?? Where did you >>>learn to read ?? >> >>Hey, take it easy there. You said: >> >>Interesting as it is, I think that to get a real feel for Crafty's strength on >>ICC you need to change Crafty's formula to "Formula=rated". >> >>And he pointed out a few things that happen if "Formula = Rated". Ignoring the >>variants, you will still get idiots do things like this: >> >>1) A 1000 rated player will match Crafty to a 999 999 game. He'll make a few >>moves until Crafty is out of book. When Crafty comes out of book, it will start >>to think forever, and the player will leave. He will never come back. I have >>had similar things happen. So until Bob come back to see what's happening, no >>games are getting played. >> >>2) A 1000 rated player will match Crafty to a million games in a row, at some >>fast time control. Of course he'll get slaughtered every time, but that doesn't >>stop him. This is absolutely not useful for the rating, because Crafty doesn't >>gain points and the player loses no points for it. But Crafty just wasted a >>very long time in this series. >> >>3) A 1000 rated player will play a bunch of games and lose them all. He'll get >>frustrated, so he decides to cheat using a computer. He'll eventually win a >>game, then he might quit. Crafty's rating just went down 32 points, yet that >>loss has nothing to do with what a true rating of its strength would be. >> >>4) There are a million other possible scenarios, just as absurd. But they >>really happen. This is the reason people set such long and convoluted formulas. >> Some use it to "protect" their rating, while some use it just to make sure >>decent chess is getting played. These are reasons why Formula=Rated just >>doesn't work to provide a true rating of strength. >> >>Jeremiah > >another point maybe worth to mention : > >the guys that complain most about things like this are usually the people >running manual progs. > >They usually have their formulas in their finger notes ;-) : > >I run "various chessengines including bla1 , bla 2 and bla 3 !" >" I will choose whatever engine I like " >" Unfortunately at the moment I can only play 1 20 " >" I won't play anyone who wins against me more than 2 times in a row " > >Or similar : really not exagurrated . > >Then they sit there ; get challenged and choose to accept or not > >This is just the same thing other people are doing by setting up formulas , >isn't it ;-) ? > >Formulas are a good thing : they bring consistency : you won't just noplay >someone because you lose but just because it is a kind of game of no interest to >you : ok , crafty is very elitary about who and what it wants to play : why is >that an issue : you can play it every day at any setting at home :-) . Hello Pete, None of this is an issue with me. I simply tried to make a point that with all the formulas being used to protect the programs you will not get a true rating on ICC. As other people pointed out you probably will never have a true rating on ICC anyway because of cheaters and various other problems. I oversimplified my suggestion as to the rating formula to be used to get a true rating. Some people seem to think formulas will stop cheaters. They will not. Of course I understand that if your program will not play crazyhouse or something like that you need to protect it from those kind of "match request" so a simple "Formula=rated" was oversimplified. When I ran my computer account I used the simplest formula possible. But the simplest formula can also be very restrictive. I would use something like "Formula= (time=5 & inc=1 & rated & autocolor) because that's what my computer was set up to play. Now anyone except guest can play it with that setting. Jim Walker
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