Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:46:23 04/23/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 23, 2000 at 10:57:55, Chessfun wrote: >On April 23, 2000 at 10:20:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 23, 2000 at 00:28:01, Chessfun wrote: >> >>>On April 22, 2000 at 17:22:52, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On April 22, 2000 at 14:20:57, A.L.Mourik wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hello dear CCC friends, >>>>> >>>>>Although earlier reports from e.g. Jouni Uski, suggest an enormous increase in >>>>>strenght for Crafty 17.10 >>>>>Nuun 2 match result Fritz6 against Crafty 17.10 ends in a very clear >>>>>29,5-10,5!! victory for Fritz6. >>>>>Played on PII 400 8mb for HT, Timecontrol 5 min + 3 sec per move. >>>> >>>> >>>>This keeps coming up, so I may as well add my two cents worth one more >>>>time.. >>>> >>>>You did _not_ reproduce the results of others. But then you didn't run >>>>the same test either. You used one computer, presumably with ponder=off. >>>>That is _not_ a reasonable test. Lots of reasons, but to make it simple: >>>> >>>>Let's play a match with no opening book. That favors the program with the >>>>lousy book. >>>> >>>>Let's play a match with search extensions and tricks disabled. That favors >>>>the program with the best eval. >>>> >>>>Let's play a match with evals disabled. That favors the program with the >>>>best search. >>>> >>>>Lets play a match searching to fixed depth. That favors the program that does >>>>the most work per node. >>>> >>>>Let's play a match searching to a fixed time limit. That favors the program >>>>that has a horrible automatic time allocation algorithm. >>>> >>>>In short, when you turn off _anything_ you most likely affect one program more >>>>than the other. You turned off pondering. I have reported several times that >>>>such hurts crafty, definitely. I allocate time based on the _assumption_ that >>>>I will save some time later in the game with correct pondering predictions. I >>>>don't when I can't ponder. >>> >>> >>>Turning off pondering in the F6 interface is suggested. >>>It is NOT recomended to enable pondering. >>> >>> >>>>The results are interesting, but they have _nothing_ to do with the way I would >>>>actually play a game against fritz in a real tournament. I would _not_ play >>>>without pondering enabled... >>> >>> >>>Your post could have been made as a reply to Jouni's post >>>since the topic was the same, only a different score. >>> >> >>If you will look back thru the archives, you will find that crafty has _won_ >>several tournaments played like that. You will also find that I have _always_ >>said that playing ponder=off is a bad idea, whether it won or lost. > > >I am aware of all the facts you point out here. And that you have >always maintained ponder=off is a bad idea. > > >>Again, ponder=off is fine for testing, etc. It is _not_ fine for playing games >>where you want to compare two engines... Whether I win, lose or draw, it is >>still just as wrong. > > >What were these games if not testing?. >It may be just wrong yet the Fritz 6 interface clearly states >that it is right from Chessbases point of view. Genius is also >set up this way with a two engine match ponder=off. >In Chessbases case if you click ponder on it will even ask if >your sure you want to do that. >Thanks. > > I don't see the point. You can visit a local store, buy a stick of dynamite, and blow yourself to bits. But that doesn't mean it is the _right_ way to use the dynamite. Matches on one computer are better managed with ponder=off. But as I said, that isn't necessarily an 'equal' handicap, any more than playing with the book off is. If one program has a lousy book, and another has a killer book, then playing without books is not an 'equal' handicap at all... the program with the lousy book will benefit more. Ditto for pondering, small hash (which you have to use in two engine matches on one computer to avoid paging), and so forth. Yes it is 'legal' or 'possible'. No, it is not a 'good idea'. > > >> >>>Thanks.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.