Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 21:00:41 04/23/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 23, 2000 at 22:12:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On April 23, 2000 at 19:14:44, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On April 23, 2000 at 18:50:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 23, 2000 at 16:16:46, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 23, 2000 at 06:33:59, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 23, 2000 at 04:15:48, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 23, 2000 at 00:43:49, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 18:35:45, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 13:13:00, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Since I never got a reply on what those blitz times were on the
>>>>>>>>>previous thread, I played 1 min game, 2 min game, 3 min game and
>>>>>>>>>5 min game.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I was surprized to read that Crafty 17-10 could beat Fritz 6a
>>>>>>>>>in Nunn 1 blitz as no previous version I had was close.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All games on Cel 433.
>>>>>>>>>Anyone wanting the games email me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>1 min game Fritz 6a 14.5 - 5.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>>>>2 min game Fritz 6a 14.5 - 5.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>>>>3 min game Fritz 6a 13.0 - 7.0 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>>>>5 min game Fritz 6a 15.5 - 4.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's a very interesting experiment. Please, keep on playing with longer time
>>>>>>>>controls.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm interested in knowing how programs behave when you change the time controls.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Let's see if the result change drastically with much longer time controls.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christophe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have played 10 mins (it's posted now I'm trying 25 then will finish
>>>>>>>at 60 mins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The original intent was I did not believe the post:
>>>>>>>Sensation Crafty 17-10 beats F6 at nunn 1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Still don't believe it, don't believe the results or the
>>>>>>>games could ever be reporduced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The hype around the post was all of course it's natural,
>>>>>>>then when F6 wins it's, well, it's only blitz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Crafty is a fine program, but sometimes there is IMO
>>>>>>>a little bit too much of biased hype surrounding it's
>>>>>>>results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I bet that you'll get the same result (inside the mathematical error margin),
>>>>>>whatever time control you use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christophe
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that if you do enough games you will not get the same result.
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems that Crafty is better at long time control.
>>>>>
>>>>>Based on blitz results you were right that Crafty is 100 elo weaker than the top
>>>>>programs but it seems based on the ssdf games that Crafty is not 100 elo weaker
>>>>>than the top programs at tournament time control inspite of the fact that crafty
>>>>>does not like the ssdf hardware and could earn more 20 elo rating if it used
>>>>>pentium instead of K6III-450.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty is only 97 elo weaker than top Fritz6a and Fritz6a is better than the
>>>>>average top program.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe the results of blitz games and tournament games do not prove with 95%
>>>>>confidence that crafty is better at long time control but I guess that it is
>>>>>only because of the fact that the ssdf do not have enough games.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So you say that Crafty is better at long time controls, but pratically we will
>>>>never know because it is unlikely that enough games will be played to confirm
>>>>your statement.
>>>>
>>>>In this case I think it is much better to assume that Crafty is not better than
>>>>his opponents at long time controls.
>>>>
>>>>That's a simple matter of economy: when it's not necessary to introduce a new
>>>>rule to a model, just don't introduce any new rule.
>>>>
>>>>Introducing fancy new rules everywhere is in my opinion obscurantism.
>>>>
>>>>When you have evidence that the model is incomplete to describe what happens in
>>>>reality, add a rule.
>>>>
>>>>When you have evidence that Crafty is better than other programs at long time
>>>>controls, just tell us.
>>>>
>>>>But until that, I don't believe in your proposition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>You overlook some important data. Ed ran some games with a monster time
>>>control. Do you recall how those came out???
>>
>>
>>
>>Are you refering to chess 2010...as far as I am aware only nine games
>>were played none by Crafty.
>>Thanks.
>
>Please look again. Crafty played (I believe) 4 games vs rebel. It won 3 and
>drew 1. I don't remember other results...
How can you call this evidence? 4 games?
Should I understand that you are claiming yourself that Crafty is better at
longer time controls?
Christophe
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