Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 22:10:10 04/23/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 23, 2000 at 23:43:14, Christophe Theron wrote: >On April 23, 2000 at 19:47:10, Bertil Eklund wrote: > >>On April 23, 2000 at 15:59:47, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On April 23, 2000 at 10:27:28, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On April 23, 2000 at 04:01:13, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 19:15:20, Pete Galati wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 18:27:14, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 14:46:28, Pete Galati wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 15:02:19, Chessfun wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 14:49:59, Pete Galati wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 14:20:57, A.L.Mourik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hello dear CCC friends, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Although earlier reports from e.g. Jouni Uski, suggest an enormous increase in >>>>>>>>>>>strenght for Crafty 17.10 >>>>>>>>>>>Nuun 2 match result Fritz6 against Crafty 17.10 ends in a very clear >>>>>>>>>>>29,5-10,5!! victory for Fritz6. >>>>>>>>>>>Played on PII 400 8mb for HT, Timecontrol 5 min + 3 sec per move. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>There isn't generally an enormous increase in strength from version to version >>>>>>>>>>of any program, that's unrealistic to expect there to be. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Your time controls are a bit short there. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Pete >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Why didn't you say or ask that of Jouni when he posted? >>>>>>>>>as all he said was blitz, that may even have been faster >>>>>>>>>than this. >>>>>>>>>Thanks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sorry, I don't read all posts, this one caught my eye because it was at the top >>>>>>>>of the board. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If Jouni played some games this fast or faster, then my opinion would be the >>>>>>>>same, it's too fast. That isn't to say that I have not run games at that speed, >>>>>>>>I have, and they were too fast to judge the strength of a program. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Pete >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Can you please explain why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You must certainly have some evidence? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>> >>>>>>Why? Why what? Your question is far too vague. >>>>>> >>>>>>Pete >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Why is it too fast to judge the strength of a program? >>>>> >>>>>Give your evidence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>>One simple answer. Take the top 4 programs on the SSDF and play a very long >>>>round-robin event, but at blitz time controls. (IE every program plays every >>>>other program 100 times). Do you think the order will be the same as the SSDF >>>>list for standard time controls? >>>> >>>>I don't. I am certain of it. >>> >>> >>>I'm certain that I would get very valuable information from this. Quickly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Christophe >>Hi! >> >>You are right in general but for instance Nimzo is much weaker in blitz and >>Genius is very much stronger in blitz vs tournament time control games. >> >>Bertil > > >That's why I wouldn't trust a blitz result blindly. But still, I would get some >valuable information quickly. > >Notice that your remark about Genius is not valid anymore IMO. On current >computers, Genius has problems even in blitz against the strongest programs. You >have to go back to Pentium 90 or 486dx2-66 to see Genius competing well in >blitz. I'm talking about the versions of Genius that have been tested by the >SSDF. > > > Christophe Maybe the argument is not valid for Tiger but the argument is valid for a lot of other chess programs. Genius was a good example 3-4 years ago. Nimzo, Rebel doing much better on long time control than on blitz. IMO the latter is also true for Crafty, I assume Bob will comment this. Also all of this is also true for Mchess. Speaking for Rebel: I NEVER trust (and never will trust) the blitz results of Rebel as blitz isn't my goal. This might be different for other programmers who consider blitz as important. For me a perfect explanation why this difference exists among chess programs. Ed
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