Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 14:08:45 10/14/97
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On October 14, 1997 at 12:13:18, Fernando Villegas wrote: I read your post very carefully and i know a simple solution: You do as if the ICCA needs such a lot of money to organize events. That is very strange that all that money they get goes to unknown sources. Anyone seen a paper where all costs and income are on? On the other hand: in Netherlands end of November the Open Dutch championships are organized. Already all active playing Dutch programs including Cilkchess(at Aegon this year terrible fast with 32 parallel fast ultrasparcs and about 10 gig of hash) have said they join. You all are free to join more info ask Theo v/d Storm: tst@dasc.nl He will be very happy and will try to help you all. 22-23 and 29-30 nobember. 11 rounds, just like WMCCC, 60 moves in 90 mins last year. From Monday 24-Friday 28 you can sight see Holland on your own. So beside the WMCC you get a second chance to prove yourself. Of course for the Europeans: hopping from England to Netherlands is only few hundreds bugs. Same for Germans and Austria's: With an Audi 100 we drove to austria within 6 hours, no speed limits at Germ highways... This means that all German locations are within few hours travelling, or 7 hours by train from Berlin (well perhaps also faster, but in 1992/1993 i needed 7 hours to get in Berlin when i played over there in Berlin Sommer)... :) France the many programs that join in in Paris: use the TGV goes straight to holland. Nothing can match that. I will use it to get to Paris. For Spain: 3 hours by plane... and if you all don't like this: If you don't are in Netherlands yourselve, then make some one else from Holland part of your team, rename for that champ your program if needed and join in. Just like Donninger did with Hydra for the WMCC. I have some names of guys with fast hardware (no DECS however) which are happy to play for you, just for a free version of your program and some thank you msg's this is not much. The Open Dutch Championship is at the top now already stronger than the WMCC, seeing the list of programs which already joined. >I have read carefully the post with which Chris W. answered one of mine >entitled "too much noise for 1000 bucks" and the same I have done with >all the other related with this issue, so I have reached some simple but >-it seems to me- very evident conclusions that I would like to share >with you all, with the hope that maybe they can be useful to clear this >matter. In order to do it easier, I have done it as a list of >propositions. So is also easier to you to answer each particular point >in case you consider them worthy of it. >A) Chris is right and I was wrong about how much are 1000 bucks because >the word "commercial" really hides enormous differences. I thought >about it a ply deeper and I saw the light. Yes, it is not the same to be >Mindscape, that -they say- has sold 4 millions units of Chessmaster, >than Vincent Diepeven or Stefan or Christophe Theron or any other >programmer that is commercial because sell his product, but that does >not sell more than a handful of units. You can be commercial and be >poor or at least not rich enough to consider 1000 bucks as just a lot >of noise. Sorry for that, is just I thought from my particular position >as a somewhat rich man. I sincerely repent. >B) For his part, ICCA probably faces the problem that is not capable to >engage enough big commercial guys capable of sponsor all the cost of the >tournament. I suppose they faces a gap between cost and revenues and try >to fill it as they can, risking incidents like to put out of the game >some people that is worthy to be there. So in this matter I think I am >right is not fair to blame ICCA as if are doing things almost with the >purpose to hurt some programmers. They just do what they can in a world >where chess computers interest probable less than 0,0001% of population >and so there are not enough bucks involved in th is to light a fire in >the hard heart of executives. >C) Nevertheless, even if ICCA in the future does not ask a cent, the >problem will not disappear because the fee is just a fraction of the >total cost of going to a tournament like this in Paris. That is a very >single fact that has not been openly discussed, or not enough. Maybe >even happens that the claims against ICCA fee is not more than an >emblematic way to face the real problem of total cost. In fact, if some >guys cannot afford 1000 bucks to pay the fee, probably they will have >also problems to pay the flight, the hotel, meals, new equipment, a >drink or two for celebrate or to forget, etc. >So the real problem is: what kind of tournament can be organized in >order to guarantee the participation not only of any chess programmer >that wants to, but what is more, to do possible the participation of >many more. >D) The answer to the previous point should be easy as much this industry >is entirely based in software, communications and so on. What's the >point to go to a place for putting a diskette inside a machine? What's >the point to replicate the organization of the tournament of Baden Baden >in 1906 or so? How is possible that people living surrounded with >electronic wizardry is not capable to organize a virtual tournament >almost without cost and adequately supervised? >E) Of course even programmers have a human side and would want to meet >each others maybe yearly in social meetings to share ideas, to laugh, >to drink a couple of drinks and so on, but this purpose should be >distinguished form the other, the competitive one. The competitive >aspect of chess software can be met trough, as I said, virtual means; >the human, thought encounters purposely created for that end and so a >lot cheaper to organize and assist. You always can get a affordable >hotel and restaurant to receive a gang of crazy programmer and fans for >three days that desire to meet each others in order to go to some >lectures and socialize; at the same time would be less costly in terms >of commercial or competitive claims. If you don’t go to the yearly >meeting of “Big Geniuses and Lovely Customers Association” in Puerto >Rico or in Viña del Mar, Chile, at least nobody will be risking to lose >an opportunity to win a valuable prize in reputation, or to see his >competitor winning market because he got the f first position in this or >that competence. >F) Then, obviously what is lacking here is the same thing that was >lacking in the old age of RGCC: self organization. CCC is a material >evidence that people that does not like how things are going can >organize to g et a change. ICCA is so important because there is not >other organization to associate people interested in this field. If >programmer AND customers and ANY person interested in this field could >be together in an organization dedicated fully to this, to organize >virtual tournaments and eventual encounters with lectures and other >activities like that, things could change dramatically. What we have now >is almost nothing: this site made possible by Steve, the Computer Chess >Report magazine in the web, private intercourse thorough mailings, a >french magazine, another in Germany and a lot of hearsay. That’s all. >Consequences are that many programmer does not sell enough because the >market is tiny, that tournaments are in the hands of ICCA, that Marty >cannot go, that Minsdcape and other big guys gets most of the attention >of the so called mass market, etc. >G) If we organize as CCC was organized, this could be solved, >communications would improve, tournaments would be more fair and the >general atmosphere of this business and hobby at the same time would be >a lot better. >What do you think? I hope all th is long tirade will not be lost in the >indifference. You should indeed shorten this in. It's too long to be remembered, and i'm afraid i also wrote too much. >fernando
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