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Subject: Re: Crafty 17-10 v Fritz 6a Two machines Nunn 1 @ 5 mins ?

Author: Chessfun

Date: 20:43:14 05/01/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 01, 2000 at 23:28:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 01, 2000 at 23:16:38, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On May 01, 2000 at 21:52:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 01, 2000 at 19:20:46, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 01, 2000 at 18:44:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I believe that ponder=on and ponder=off are two different things.  I don't
>>>>>know how it will affect the results, because I don't spend any time testing
>>>>>against anyone with ponder=off.  But I do know that ponder=off is _not_ tested
>>>>>very well in my code because I consider it pointless to use it except for
>>>>>testing/debugging.  If it affects others like it does me, then perhaps the
>>>>>games are 'valid'.  If they have tested ponder=off to any degree, then the
>>>>>tests are not valid.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for your answers. I can't promise not to use ponder off, but this is due
>>>>to my hardware. However, I'll promise that I won't bother you with statements
>>>>like: Crafty isn't that strong with ponder off :o).
>>>>
>>>>>I think a lot of the 'testing' is all about trying to prove that Crafty can't
>>>>>play chess.  IE you start out with a conclusion, then you try to find a way to
>>>>>make that conclusion happen...
>>>>
>>>>I didn't think that at first, but when information like the exclusion of
>>>>learning and the selectivity of results starts to appear, I'm getting suspicious
>>>>too.
>>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>Mogens
>>>
>>>
>>>Or comments like "It lost 5-15, that is about what I expected."  But then
>>>"it won 12-8, so something must be wrong, I'll look further."
>>>
>>>that sort of 'says it all', IMHO.
>>
>>
>>Then Dr. you should read posts more carefully before quoting IMHO:
>>Assuming you are refering to my posts, if not kindly post which
>>posts makes that statement.
>
>
>I can read quite well.  It lost the first match.  No comment.  It did much
>better in the second.  "I don't know what to make of it."
>
>Do you see the difference?  (a) was what you expected. No comment.  (b) was
>not what you expected.  " you don't know what to make of it..."
>
>I can read between the lines...
>
>Then you re-ran the test.  Did you re-run any of the _other_ tests?  Or just
>that one that you considered unusual?
>
>That was my point.


I understood your point. However it was put as that was said,
when in fact it wasn't.

If Crafty had won the first set 11 - 9 I wouldn't have questioned
it. But Fritz had won it 15-5 therefore it was natural to conclude
there was a problem when you have another identical set with a totally
different set of results.

I had not intended to run it twice, it had looped through the night.
If there was only one set of results I would have looked at those games
on alternate machines to confirm some of the moves. This I do regardless
of winner.

Therefore whether Fritz or Crafty had won the first set the games would
have been looked at.

Did I expect Fritz to win. Yes sure, I have said that since my very
first post after Jouni's. I expect it to win with ponder=off or ponder=on.

Does this mean I will/would post results that don't exist? if that were
the case then there would have been no need to mention the second set
of 5/0 scores, or the problems with autoplayer at 25/0.

Thanks.








>
>>
>>The actual posts I posted read and I quote from post:
>>http://site2936.dellhost.com/forums/1/message.shtml?108521
>>
>>"I happened to let 5/0 run through the night.
>>As a result it looped through and played 5/0 twice.
>>
>>In the second set of 20 games the score was:
>> 5 min game    Fritz 6a 9.0 - 11.0 Crafty 17-10
>>I am not sure what to make of it.
>>
>>All games posted have been checked and a few of the
>>moves checked on the opposite computer everything checks
>>out ok."
>>
>>Then in post:
>>http://site2936.dellhost.com/forums/1/message.shtml?108559
>>
>>I wrote:
>>
>>"I think I need to clear before starting any new match.
>>I restarted both after the 10/0 games and then got the same
>>score. Re-ran the 5/0 after restart and again got the same
>>score 15-5 to Fritz."
>>
>>Thanks.



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