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Subject: Re: Is this move really the best?

Author: Stefan Meyer-Kahlen

Date: 04:14:21 05/03/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 03, 2000 at 05:48:33, Paulo Soares wrote:

>On May 03, 2000 at 00:06:39, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2000 at 16:49:25, Pete R. wrote:
>>
>>>I think Shredder's output is basically correct in that Rxe6 is *not* the best
>>>move.  After Rxe6 fxe6 is best and leads to the forced line given.  Shredder
>>>sees this better than Fritz does, btw, Fritx abandons fxe6 in favor of Rc7.
>>>Somebody mentioned 1. Rxe6 fxe6 2. Bh6?! as being better than 2. Nxe6 but I
>>>disagree. 1. Rxe6 fxe6 2. Bh6 a6 and white is still in poor shape.  1. Bh6 has a
>>>point to keep the king in the center, but 1. Qd3 to prevent a6 may be as good or
>>>better.  In any case Shredder seems to be doing fine.
>>
>>I remember that I tried to play the position after Rxe5 fxe6 2.Bh6 with black
>>with the help of my beta version of Junior(Junior4.6 was the commercial version
>>and I used a better version) in this board about 1.5-2 years ago and could not
>>win with black.
>>
>>I am not sure what I played but I think that I played a6 and the opponent
>>replied Re1 at some stage of the game that was a strong move.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I analyzed 1. Rxe6 fxe6 2. Bh6 a6 for a long time, but I didn't get to find any
>position in that  white are better. However, I think Howard is right
>when he wrote: "the position was extremely deep and full of twists and
>turns that computers needed a long time to resolve".
>I will seek in the files with approximately 1.5 years to see what you and
>Howard played, I am curious because I am not 100% sure that white
>can't win/draw in this position.
>
>Paulo Soares


I have let Shredder analyse the position after 1.Rxe6 fxe6 a bit. After a while
Shredder switches to 2.Bh6, but the score is still significantly lower that at
the root without playing 1.Rxe6.

Thanks for all your input
   Stefan


 6.01   0:02.03  +1.74   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kf7 4.Qf3+ Bf6 5.Bg5 Rb8 6.Rd1 Ke7
                         (223.571) 110.0
 6 ->   0:02.06  +1.74   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kf7 4.Qf3+ Bf6 5.Bg5 Rb8 6.Rd1 Ke7
                         (224.949) 109.0
 7.01   0:04.28  +1.49-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Qxe7+ (494.282) 115.4
 7.01   0:04.79  +0.99-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Qxe7+ (573.511) 119.5
 7.01   0:06.07  +0.82   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Qxe8 (739.209) 121.6
 7 ->   0:06.29  +0.82   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Qxe8 (765.290) 121.5
 8.01   0:11.54  +0.80   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rcd8 7.Qc6 Qc7 8.Nxd8+ Rxd8 9.Qxc7 Nxc7
                         (1.376.981) 119.2
 8 ->   0:11.65  +0.80   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rcd8 7.Qc6 Qc7 8.Nxd8+ Rxd8 9.Qxc7 Nxc7
                         (1.391.745) 119.3
 9.01   0:24.64  +0.55-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Bh6+ Kxh6 10.Qh3+ Kg5
                         11.Qg3+ Kf6 12.Qe5+ Kxe5 (2.717.680) 110.2
 9.01   0:32.15  +0.05-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.b3 Rxd7 (3.687.498) 114.6
 9.01   0:46.23  -0.20   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Qxe8 Nf6 10.Qb8 Rxc1+
                         (5.350.617) 115.7
 9 ->   0:49.75  -0.20   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Qxe8 Nf6 10.Qb8 Rxc1+
                         (5.747.090) 115.5
10.01   1:47.68  -0.45-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Bh6+ Kxh6 10.Qh3+ Kg5
                         11.Qh6+ Kxh6 (12.019.946) 111.6
10.01   2:25.21  -0.95-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Bh6+ Kxh6 10.Qh3+ Kg5
                         11.Qh6+ Kxh6 (16.533.198) 113.8
10.01   3:18.28  -1.36   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nxa5 Rxd7 8.Nc6 Rc7 9.Nxe7 Rxe7 10.Bg5 Re5
                         11.Bh6 (22.759.629) 114.7
10 ->   3:36.00  -1.36   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nxa5 Rxd7 8.Nc6 Rc7 9.Nxe7 Rxe7 10.Bg5 Re5
                         11.Bh6 (24.620.915) 113.9
11.01   6:50.21  -1.61-- 2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nxa5 Rxd7 8.Nc6 Rc7 9.Nxe7 Rxe7 10.b3 Kg7 11.Bg5
                         (46.176.846) 112.5
11.01  10:45.17  -1.88   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Qb5 Qxb5 9.Nxb5 Rd7 10.Be3 Nxe3
                         11.fxe3 Rc8 12.Rf1 (71.838.251) 111.3
11 ->  13:25.06  -1.88   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nd6+ Kg7 8.Qb5 Qxb5 9.Nxb5 Rd7 10.Be3 Nxe3
                         11.fxe3 Rc8 12.Rf1 (88.329.686) 109.7
12.01  27:53.01  -1.93   2.Nxe6 Qa5 3.Bxd7+ Kxd7 4.Nec5+ Ke8 5.Qd7+ Kf7 6.Nxb7
                         Rc7 7.Nxa5 Rxd7 8.Bh6 Rc8 9.Re1 Kg8 10.Nb3
                         (182.248.490) 108.9
12.02  36:42.14  -1.92++ 2.Bh6 a6 3.Bxa6 Bxa6 4.Nxe6 Qa5 5.Ng7+ Kf7 6.Qe6+ Kf8
                         7.Qxd7 Qc7 8.Nf5+ Kf7 9.Qxd5+ Kf6 10.Bg7+
                         (236.080.207) 107.2
12.02  44:10.84  -1.57++ 2.Bh6 a6 3.Bxa6 Bxa6 4.Nxe6 Qa5 5.Ng7+ Kf7 6.Qe6+ Kf8
                         7.Qxd7 Qc7 8.Qxd5 (278.298.198) 104.9
12.02  55:46.12  -1.15   2.Bh6 a6 3.Bxa6 Qc7 4.Nxe6 Qc6 5.Bxb7 Qxb7 6.Ng7+ Kf8
                         7.Re1 Qc6 8.Nf5+ Kf7 9.Nd4 Qxa4 10.Qe6+ (342.851.382)
                         102.4
12 ->  58:46.01  -1.15   2.Bh6 a6 3.Bxa6 Qc7 4.Nxe6 Qc6 5.Bxb7 Qxb7 6.Ng7+ Kf8
                         7.Re1 Qc6 8.Nf5+ Kf7 9.Nd4 Qxa4 10.Qe6+ (361.427.969)
                         102.5
13.01  84:06.04  -1.05   2.Bh6 a6 3.Bxa6 Qc7 4.Nxe6 Qc6 5.Bxb7 Qxb7 6.Ng7+ Kf8
                         7.Re1 Qc6 8.Nf5+ Kf7 9.Nd4 Qxa4 10.Qe6+ (512.424.766)
                         101.5





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