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Subject: Re: pv score oscillation

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:36:35 10/19/97

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On October 19, 1997 at 01:36:26, Christophe Theron wrote:

>
>On October 18, 1997 at 23:57:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 18, 1997 at 23:47:24, Willie Wood wrote:
>>>I've noticed that some programs (incl mine) show a pv score oscillation
>>>as the ply increase.
>[snip]
>>
>>there are at least two things you can do:
>>
>>1.  add some wtm (or btm) bonus, so that if one side gets 5 moves in a
>>PV, but the other side only gets 4, that side gets the "on move" bonus.
>[snip]
>>2.  selective programs can bias the selectivity to try for an even
>>number
>>of moves in the PV, or an odd number if you like the extra
>>aggressiveness
>>this gives.
>[snip]
>
>
>An interesting debate. The oscillation has at least 2 bad effects:
>
>1) If two or more among the best moves are evaluated very close, the
>program could "randomly" choose one at an even ply depth, another one at
>the next ply depth (doubling the time to complete that depth), and go
>back to the first move at the next depth. So the total computing time
>could be two or three times smaller without the oscillation (not on
>every move, but often). All this time lost to get a move with 0.01
>points more!
>
>2) the time management algorithms can be confused by a "floatting"
>score. I use a simple sheme that gives my program more time when the
>score of the computed PV falls well below the score computed at the
>previous ply depth. If you realize your move is bad, it could be wise to
>take more time to see if there is a better one. If the oscillation is
>strong, my program can believe it's going to make a mistake, and think
>more, on every move.
>
>Of course, if the evaluation function was perfect, we would choose the
>best move at ply 1, and have the right score from ply depth 1 to
>infinite. So the oscillation of an evaluation function (among other
>things) could be used to measure its "perfection".
>
>We cannot have a perfect evaluation. So I tried the following:
>
>1) As Bob said, give the side to move a slight bonus, assuming it surely
>has a move to improve its score. Of course, this is false when the side
>is in zugzwang. But it is false more often than that. In the middlegame,
>the first case I remember is a knight in the middle of the board (Tiger
>loves that). If it is your move, with white, and your knight is under
>attack on e5, you have to put it back on f3, and your score will
>decrease. So it is clear that adding a bonus in that case could make
>things even worse.
>
>2) Ok, so generally the side to move could get a slight bonus EXCEPT
>when it is under attack. But it is not wise in that case to leave things
>without knowing what will happen. So if the side to move is under attack
>at the end of the line, extend one more ply. Mr Shanon would be glad to
>hear this. He said "evaluate only quiet positions", and most of the
>programmers interpreted as "evaluate only if the side to move has no
>good capture, promotion or check", ignoring if the other side has a good
>capture/promotion/check itself! But doing such a "real quiescence
>search" really gives huge trees (sorry Mr Shanon). I tried. Maybe you
>could try doing it on just 1 or 2 plies. There are really good
>commercial programs using this concept (no names). It fits well for
>positional programs, and sometimes you see combinations faster (but on
>average it is worse for tactical play). Yes, extending threats mainly
>serves positional purposes!
>
>
>I tried, and rejected both of the above. Today, I still have the
>oscillation problem. I would be pleased to read other ideas from other
>programmers...
>
>
>- Christophe -

As I said, this killed my MTD(f) tests, because to make this work well,
the window (alpha,alpha+1) needs to be centered on the correct score, or
very close to it.  My scores vary a lot from iteration to iteration. on
occasion.  On other occasions they are quite stable.  I gave up worrying
about it... :)



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