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Subject: Re: Garry still singing the same Deep Blue blues...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:47:26 05/07/00

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On May 07, 2000 at 17:14:25, Hans Gerber wrote:

>On May 07, 2000 at 16:16:07, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>There are 2 kinds of science, the one about money and the orginal one
>>which is about complete openness. Guess about which one I was talking :)
>>
>>Ed
>
>I think you both are talking about different things. Let's take a look. It was a
>test for the strength of the machine. It was not about the question if the
>machine _and_ its helpers could outplay Kasparov psychologically.


No it wasn't.  The question, clearly asked, was:

  "Can a computer beat the world champion in a match at tournament time
   controls?"

Nothing more, nothing less.  Not "Can the machine work its way thru the
candidates matches first?"  Not "can the machine beat the world champion
after playing a few hundred public games?"

It was _all_ about beating the world champion.  No-holds-barred.  That is all
that was _ever_ asked.  If you want to ask a different question, feel free.
Perhaps someone will try to answer it.  But for Deep Blue, the question that
was being asked was as given above.  Not with all the qualifiers that Kasparov
wanted to add after the fact. (I want program output.  I want more games.  etc.)

>
>Scientists constructed the machine. As I said they forgot the question of the
>control of the output of the machine.

What you ask for is _impossible_ to provide.  That is the very nature of
computer software.  It is very easy to change.





>
>Scientists have a certain reputation no matter if they act in science, in a test
>or in a match.
>
>By upsetting Kasparov they violated their own standards. It was not just the
>denial to provide Kasparov with the prints of the output, it was the way this
>has been done. Very unusual behavior for decent scientists.

Hmmm.. did you _see_ the press conference after game 6?  Would that make _you_
want to cooperate with your opponent?  After he called you a cheater?  After
he implied DB had 'help'?

They didn't violate any standard.  They were trying to answer one specific
question, which they did.  Not trying to answer other questions that people
want to get the answers to.  Just the one question at the top of this post.




>
>It was said that the IBM officials and not Hsu et al. were responsible for that
>indecent behavior.


Who was responsible for Kasparov's indecent behavior?




>
>Anyway, the scientists and chess experts around Hsu should then have protested
>against such a method. Because the results of the match would no longer be
>valid. They should have explained that IBM had invested so much money for
>nothing if they treated Kasparov in such an unfriendly way.
>

After the way he acted, IBM responded _exactly_ in the same way I would have
responded.  I would not have said "no".  I would have said "hell, no" to his
request to see the output.

I don't think IBM was unfriendly at all.  They refused a ridiculous request,
made in an insulting way.




>I don't understand why these scientists gave their consent to the destruction of
>their own experiment and probably their own reputation.



Their reputation is doing just fine.  DB wasn't destroyed.  The chess processors
are sitting on a shelf.  Newer SP machines are rolling off the assembly line.
But if I were them, I wouldn't play Kasparov again.  He acted like a jackass.
Let 'im stew in his own juice after the antics at the various press conferences,
and the public statements he has made since the event.  He doesn't deserve a
'rubber match' with them.

I don't even think he really wants one.  He refused an offer from Hsu already.



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