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Subject: Re: Garry still singing the same Deep Blue blues...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:15:54 05/08/00

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On May 08, 2000 at 01:58:57, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On May 07, 2000 at 22:00:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 07, 2000 at 16:09:13, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On May 07, 2000 at 15:18:56, Hans Gerber wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 07, 2000 at 10:34:26, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Right, the match was not invalid. However the point Hans is making is
>>>>>that the match was presented (by IBM) as being "science" which is to
>>>>>laugh about. If it was about science the request of Kasparov to see
>>>>>the logfile should have been granted 10 minutes after the request and
>>>>>not 2 years later.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, this was my point. By not giving the logfiles the scientists destroyed
>>>>their own experimental setting because Kasparov no longer played "normal chess".
>>>>In social sciences you analyse human behavior. The question was 'who played
>>>>better chess', not 'the quality of the chessplay of Kasparov after being
>>>>confused'. I hope nobody will deny that upsetting Kasparov in a very unfriendly
>>>>manner was a _factor_ in the match. It's as if they had set Kasparov under
>>>>drugs. Therefore the result of the match is invalid.
>>>
>>>From a scientific point of view the match was invalid, I agee. But from
>>>the point of view of a normal chess match he lost.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>
>>I totally disagree.  Kasparov asked for something he had no business asking
>>for, something he would never have asked from a human opponent.  If he was
>>playing you, and suddenly said "drop your pants, I want to see what you have
>>in there."  Would you do so?  He asked for something that was unreasonable
>>to ask for.  He got turned down.  Asking in the first place was wrong.  Turning
>>him down was not.
>>
>>If he wanted the output that badly, he should have thought of that beforehand,
>>and made it a contractural requirement...  The match details were agreed on
>>before the match started.  He wanted to change things to suit him. It didn't
>>happen.  He ranted.  He lost.  End of story, IMHO.
>>
>>He'll lose to another computer one day.  I only know that _I_ would never play
>>him in any sort of match.  Who wants that kind of grief...  where even if you
>>win, you lose...
>
>All fine with me as long as the match isn't labelled as scientific as Mr.
>Tan (spokesman of IBM) emphasized in public. That was a clear lie as science
>in its natural form wasn't practiced. And I don't buy Kasparov excuse "I
>thought this was a friendly match" either, he is just too smart for that.
>
>Ed


What makes this "not science"?  Building the hardware was science.  Writing the
code was science.  Playing him under basically the same arrangements as the
first match was a scientifically repeatable experiment...

He turned it into a free-for-all himself, by suggesting cheating.  But the
games were played between him and the computer.  If he got himself into a
mental state where he couldn't play, that was just a random scientific
variable beyond anybody's (except his) control.



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