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Subject: Re: Disappointment as Fritz 5,6+Hiarcs fail to find this elegant move! WHY?

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 14:00:27 05/09/00

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On May 09, 2000 at 12:52:20, blass uri wrote:

>On May 09, 2000 at 10:34:20, Mark Andreoli wrote:
>
>>
>>   I recently played a 5 minute blitz game against International Master Nenad
>>Aleksic. see moves below: (I lost as I am black.)
>>
>>        1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O
>>
>>        8.Bc4 Nc6 9. Bb3 Bd7 10.g4 Qa5 11.h4 Rfc8 12.h5 Ne5 13.hxg6 hxg6
>>
>>        14.Bh6 Bh8 15.Qd2 b5 16.O-O-O Nc4 17.Bxc4 Rxc4 18.Nb3 Qc7 19.Bf8!! OK
>>
>>       "gang" the parties over. All variations are FORCED and win rather quickly
>>        for white. The game continued 19. ...  Rxf8 20.Rxh8+ Kxh8 21.Qh6+ Kg8
>>
>>        22.Rh1 Nh5 22. gxh5 Rxc3 23.hxg6  1-0
>>
>>         My question is _why_ can't the above mentioned "engines" F5/F6/Hiarcs
>>find the move 19. Bf8 (Nenad found it in only 20 seconds). The engines all want
>>to play Bg5??
>>
>>           _which wins too_ in a __long endgame_ however I thought nothing could
>>beat these chess computers when it came to tactics.
>>       Maybe I overlooked something? Maybe Junior,Rebel,CM 7000 or Chess Tiger
>>can find this "simple but elegant tactical shot"! Could anyone help me out by
>>checking the position after the 18th move. I would love to be corrected and/or
>>enlightened. Thanks for any help in solving this _mystery_!? MJA :-(
>
>The reason that programs cannot see it is because the tactics is too deep for
>them.
>
>They see lines like 19.Bf8 Rxf8 20.Rxh8+ Kxh8 21.Qh6+ Kg8 22.Rh1 Nh5 23.gxh5
>Rxc3 24.hxg6 Rxc2+ 25.Kd1 Rc1+ 26.Nxc1 a6 and think that black has equality
>
>It is known that program are very weak at seeing long tactics and this is the
>reason that they cannot solve some studies and that humans can sometimes
>outsearch them in the endgame.
>
>Most of the tactic in the middle game is short tactic so in most of the cases
>they are better than humans in tactics in the middle game.
>
>Chessmaster6000(ss=10) was the fastest program in this position and needed 4
>minutes and some seconds to see Bf8(hardwrae pIII450)
>
>Rebel Century was the second best and needed more than 5 minutes but less than 6
>minutes to see it on my pIII450
>
>Uri

The latest version of Rebel running under EPD2DIAG: Bf8 in 1:31

00:00  06.00  0.95  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 Bxf6 3.Nd5 Qc8 4.Nxf6+ exf6
00:02  07.00  1.69  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 Bxf6 3.Nd5 Qc8 4.g5 Bxg5 5.Qxg5
00:03  08.00  1.69  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 Bxf6 3.Nd5 Qc8 4.g5 Bxg5 5.Qxg5 Rxc2+ 6.Kb1
00:06  09.00  1.69  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 Bxf6 3.Nd5 Qc8 4.g5 Bxg5 5.Qxg5 Rxc2+ 6.Kb1
00:09  10.00  2.02  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 exf6 3.Qxd6 Qxd6 4.Rxd6 Be6 5.Nxb5 Rac8
00:16  11.00  1.98  1.Bg5 Bg7 2.Bxf6 exf6 3.Qxd6 Qxd6 4.Rxd6 Be6 5.Nxb5 Rac8
6.Rd2
01:31  11.17  1.98  1.Bf8
02:22  11.17  2.57  1.Bf8 Rxf8 2.Rxh8+ Kxh8 3.Qh6+ Kg8 4.Rh1 Nh5 5.gxh5 Rxc3
6.hxg6 Rxc2+ 7.Kb1 Rh2 8.Rxh2

Athlon 1000 Mhz, 60 Mb hash.

Ed





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