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Subject: Re: Are the games available ?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:06:48 10/22/97

Go up one level in this thread


On October 22, 1997 at 05:13:13, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>>Just so you quantify who "some people" are.
>
>Quantify ? I thought qualify ?? Whatever...
>
>
>>In this regard, list me as
>>a "follower" not as a leader.
>
>
>Where is the difference between leaders and followers ?
>The one cannot live without the others, and both do not STOP anything !
>
>
>>My original application asked for a
>>K6/233
>>machine.  After seeing alphas and PII/300's popping up everywhere, I
>>decided
>>that to have a fair chance, Crafty needed faster hardware.
>
>But this is the point ! Our whole discussion was about FAIRNESS !
>If ANYbody wants to be fair in a very egocentric way, ANYBODY will bring
>HIS fair super-dupa-high-speed Pentiumxyz 4xx Mhz Machine or more !
>Fair means : not to be fair against yourself ! Fair means always:
>To be fair towards the group !
>Fairness is not a term of reflexive action. It means an act into a
>social group!
>

then talk to the *commercial* guys.  *they* have led the charge to use
faster hardware every year.  *every* year.  Don't talk to me about
"fairness" because I am trying to keep up.  Talk to them about trying to
keep ahead.  *every* year.



>>  I'll happily
>>play
>>on "equal" hardware.
>
>Brilliant.
>
>
>>I won't happily play using "inferior" hardware.
>
>Right !
>
>
>>Why
>>don't you guys get together in Paris and stop this?
>
>How ?
>Revolution ?
>Kidnapping ?
>
>
>> IE make it uniform
>>platform.  I'm not sure what platform, but either make it *one* specific
>>machine, or else drop the subject and let the event run as it has since
>>the
>>first WMCCC event, where anything goes so long as it is a commercially
>>available microprocessor.
>>
>>Either change it, or put up with it.  But all the complaining is doing
>>nothing but creating hard feelings and lots of posts here, while the
>>original problem still remains...
>
>1. this is a club for discussions !
>Where should we post LOTS OF POST if not here ??
>
>2. this is not complaining. This is a discussion. Without TALKING about
>something in a pluralistic/democratic forum, nobody would know anything.
>Talking is the first thing. You correlate/exchange your opinion with
>others.
>Then you can act ! If you are allowed to act.
>


talking here does nothing.  talking at Paris can accomplish a lot if the
majority want uniform platform.  But I'll bet the decision will be to
allow anything.  It always has, at least..


>
>>>Kind of silly that again this tournament is first a search for the best
>>>hardware and then to the best software.
>>
>>the "again this tournament ..." is important.  specifically *again*.  It
>>has
>>gone on forever.  If enough want it stopped, make it uniform-platform
>>and
>>be done with it.  I'll play either way.  As is or uniform.
>
>You cannot relate the OLD champioships with the championships today.
>In the old times, BIG COMPANIES leaded the championships. They had
>SPECIAL hardware and they were unable to change the hardware.
>Today we have PC's !
>Many programs run on a pc. So it should be senseful to give the
>PC-programs an equal hardware platform.


partially true.  But the programs were *still* run on hardware that was
not for sale, at clock speeds that were unavailable.  IE the Mephisto
machines are one example.


>
>In the old times this was much more difficult with some programs using
>the 6502 in assembler, others the 68000 and other companies the 1806 and
>z80A.


Naive.  What about the current group of .asm programmers?  Same exact
problem as before.  .asm to get a speed advantage, then should we select
a non-x86 platform, we get whining about "oh no, I'm in assembly and I
can't port."  Who's fault is that I wonder??



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