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Subject: Re: Are the games available ?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:12:27 10/22/97

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On October 22, 1997 at 04:12:09, Chris Whittington wrote:

>
>On October 21, 1997 at 17:02:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 21, 1997 at 15:10:27, jean-christophe WEILL wrote:
>>
>>>On October 20, 1997 at 09:57:44, Reinhold Gellner wrote:
>>>
>>>>Perhaps we should try to convince the others again that a WMCCC with
>>>>equal hardware should become standard.
>>>>
>>>>To illustrate this just have a look at the final standings of Jakarta,
>>>>which correlates strongly with hardware speed.
>>>
>>>We had only Pentium 166Mhz at Jakarta...
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, for this tournament there was 40 same AMD computers available.
>>>If everyone wants to be fair we can play all on the exactly same
>>>hardware.... But we know that some people wants to be at the top
>>>at all price. This can be by chosing the fastest hardware.
>>
>>
>>Just so you quantify who "some people" are.  In this regard, list me as
>>a "follower" not as a leader.  My original application asked for a
>>K6/233
>>machine.  After seeing alphas and PII/300's popping up everywhere, I
>>decided
>>that to have a fair chance, Crafty needed faster hardware.  I'll happily
>>play
>>on "equal" hardware.  I won't happily play using "inferior" hardware.
>>Why
>>don't you guys get together in Paris and stop this?  IE make it uniform
>>platform.  I'm not sure what platform, but either make it *one* specific
>>machine, or else drop the subject and let the event run as it has since
>>the
>>first WMCCC event, where anything goes so long as it is a commercially
>>available microprocessor.
>>
>>Either change it, or put up with it.  But all the complaining is doing
>>nothing but creating hard feelings and lots of posts here, while the
>>original problem still remains...
>
>Well, sorry if it creates hard feelings. Don't get the idea that you are
>being picked out, but there's a reason:
>
>1. Two years ago there was no forum to discuss this openly. So everybody
>just moaned and griped to their friends. Some took action which was
>never made clear or apparent. For example, Thorsten has always
>complained that SSDF never tested Hiarcs on fast PC's in SWeden after
>Hiarcs won the WMCCC Munich. Maybe the SSDF didn't like the idea of
>Hiarcs winning it on a superfast Sparc ?
>
>2. Last year the machine detail wouldn't have counted. The fight was
>over higher moral issues of genocide etc.
>
>3. This year, we have the forum, hardware advantage is the major issue;
>therefore it gets discussed. You two guys are here discussing and you
>two guys are using 750 TeraHertz. So you two guys get to take the heat.
>Basically you two guys should stop griping and trying to close the
>discussion: you want a tournament winning advantage ? Well then, defend
>yourselves from those who you have disadvantaged.
>


I'm not defending myself period.  track down the original alpha users,
the
programmers that are taking PII/300's, and so forth, as they are the
ones
that led me to search for something faster.  I don't consider the alpha
a
"tournament winning advantage".  I consider it a "avoiding tournament
disadvantage" issue.  There *is* a *huge* difference...




>>
>>
>>>
>>>Kind of silly that again this tournament is first a search for the best
>>>hardware and then to the best software.
>>
>>the "again this tournament ..." is important.  specifically *again*.  It
>>has
>>gone on forever.  If enough want it stopped, make it uniform-platform
>>and
>>be done with it.  I'll play either way.  As is or uniform.
>>
>


>Is there a moral philosopher in the house ? there seems something wrong
>in this highly pragmatic approach .....


thus spake the tortoise to the hare?  It's not my intent to go to Paris
and be a ply behind someone just because they have faster hardware.  As
I said, get a majority to change the rule.  But I'll bet a majority will
be hard to come by, seeing that maybe 1/2 of the field will be on
something
better than an AMD K6/233.


>
>>
>>>
>>>Certainly there will be another way to associate programs and hardware
>>>in some other kind of competition.
>
>I hope so.
>
>Chris Whittington
>
>>>
>>>Jean-Christophe



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