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Subject: Re: Disappointment:results/comments/+naive conclusions on Bf8!please comment

Author: Ralf Elvsén

Date: 08:45:58 05/10/00

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On May 10, 2000 at 10:52:19, Mark Andreoli wrote:

>
>    BUT HERE GOES: I NEED SOME _FEEDBACK_ON A FEW _NAIVE CONCLUSIONS_!? THANKS
>
>   1.I have heard time after time that "there is only one best move in any given
>position"(It makes sense /the one that wins the fastest) . In this case most of
>us agreed it was 19.Bf8! Ok my question is why
>didn't My Fritz 5 ,6 or Hiarcs find this move especially given the fact that F6
>is in the top 5 on the SSDF list?Are they weak analyzers?

At least on my machine Hiarcs fails high on Bf8 after 10 minutes. Score +2.44 at
ply 10.

>
>  2.How can it be that the above mentioned engines (F5/6/Hiarcs)manage to "Kick
>Butt" time and time again on other engines who found Bf8 but _they_ were unable
>to find it? So What engine is _really _ the strongest?

If you look for strength I suggest you look at the SSDF-list and then
decide how much you believe in it. I hope you don't think that if one
program is stronger than another, that it will always find better moves
faster? The top programs are so close in playing strength that
it just won't happen.

>
>  3. Given the fact that I do play a lot of tournament chess what _computer
>chess program_ (Will the truly best analyzing engine please _stand up_!) do I
>have to buy now to get a "second opinion" on my game positions. I still can't
>express how disappointed I am  in F5/F6 and Hiarcs for not finding 19.Bf8!
>(remember Nenad Aleksic found it in only about 20 seconds over the board!)
>
>  Thanks MJA //Comments will be greatly appreciated!!!

A human can play a great move without being sure it is winning. He can
play a move he thinks is winning but when looked upon closer it turns
out to be bad. Of course there will always be moves played by humans
after a short think, which computers can't find. A human can be lucky
or use intuition. Or have superior knowledge.

I don't own a lot of top programs but I guess all have their weaknesses. For
analyzing I guess there is no "best" engine. If you look at how the programs
play I am sure you will be irritated regularly because there is a lot
of things they don't understand. Take Hiarcs, I could make a pretty long
list of weaknesses. I am sure other people can make similar lists for
other programs. But I would not call Hiarcs
tactically weak, which you seem to think. I have the impression it usually
is pretty fast to find moves like this, but some positions suit some programs
better than others, thats life. I am certain that if you feed a lot of
positions like your to the top programs there is no program that will find
all best moves, even less so find them before all other programs. That
would be asking for too much.

Note that the position you asked about is highly tactical. What about
positional ability? Endgame knowledge? Which program you would prefer for
analysis probably depends on your personal preferences. Ask around
(or try them all :) .

Ralf



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