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Subject: Re: proposal on machine speed at WMCCC

Author: Chris Whittington

Date: 13:41:05 10/23/97

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On October 23, 1997 at 16:17:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 23, 1997 at 15:39:05, Chris Whittington wrote:
>
>>
>>For Bob and Bruce:
>>
>>Class above = 2 times. As in speed doubling every 18 months, RAM price
>>halving every whenever.
>>
>>2 times is a class above and unacceptable IMO. 1.5 times I personally
>>find too much. 1.3 I could live with.
>>
>>Bruce says he is just short of 2 times with his 500 alpha. Plus then the
>>AMD 233's are now going to be AMD 200's.
>>
>>Bob can't quantify it well because of the 64 bitness.
>>
>>So I'll buy this: we stop arguing over 500 alphas. IMO they are still
>>too much, but I'll stop arguing it.
>>
>>Bob and Bruce are confident they'll get 500's. They are less confident
>>that the 766's will turn up. Bob and Bruce both say they don't want to
>>try and get a class above, just they want to stay competitive. Don't we
>>all.
>>
>>So, peace proposal, you guys perform on 500 alphas, leave the 766's in
>>their boxes, don't use them at the tourney, don't give them out to
>>others. What Dark Thought will do, Dark Thought will do, but I hope they
>>can run of 500 as well.
>>
>>So guys, how about it, peace and moderate alphas ?
>
>
>I don't have a firm "766".  But my concern would be for someone to ask
>for such a machine, get a company to jump thru several hoops to get 3 of
>them assembled, tested, and shipped, with the promise that they would
>get
>showcased at an event that would generate a reasonable amount of
>publicity,
>particularly if they do well.
>
>This is the reason I would hate to revert to an AMD machine, period.

You don;t have to, you've said you've got 500 Mhz alphas, no problems.


> We
>asked for, and DEC responded with a machine, they are paying for
>shipping,
>installing software, and so forth.  We'd look foolish if they visited
>and
>found us on an AMD.  They probably wouldn't say anything, but we'd never
>get another loaner from them.
>
>I've planned on a plain /500 from the day DEC said "yes".  We'd hoped
>for
>a 766, but I'm still skeptical that the machine will function at that
>clock
>rate.  IE I wonder if they have run a chess engine that beats on the
>integer
>functional units within the cpu, to see if eventually heat build-up
>becomes
>intolerable?  So that was an outside shot for us anyway.

Ok, so you've not answered the question, here it is again:

>>So guys, how about it, peace and moderate alphas ?


That was the question.

>
>>
>>And for next year, lets discuss:
>>
>>a) no two types of sponsor machines as at Paderborn
>>
>>b) nobody more than 1.3 times the provided machines ...
>>
>
>I think you are asking for trouble.  Either make it uniform platform or
>not.  But 1.3 is a problem.  IE how do we decide on 1.3?  What benchmark
>do we run?  If I am getting 1.4, can't I just fake my node count by 10%
>internally to make it look only 1.3x faster?
>
>I really believe there will be a 1ghz PPC next year.  How fast you run
>depends on how you are written and whether you have studied that
>architecture or not.
>
>I'd say go uniform, period, if this is perceived as a problem.  Cut the
>macs out, the alphas out, the MIPS out, IBM workstations out, everyone
>except for an Intel X86 at YYY mhz.  If you want it to be fair, that's
>the only way.  Otherwise, it is simply too hard to compare machine A to
>machine B, since programs vary.  And using a program is a dangerous
>thing
>anyway as that then becomes open to skullduggery.

We could make a machine committee and argue it out. My guideline would
be 1.3 times.

Argument could be open, like on this server.

Go for that ?

NB the other question above ...

Chris



>
>
>>
>>
>>Chris Whittington



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