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Subject: Re: Tieviekov protests and claims a win against Fritz

Author: blass uri

Date: 07:38:28 05/16/00

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On May 16, 2000 at 10:25:15, Christopher R. Dorr wrote:

>On May 16, 2000 at 04:38:10, Hans Gerber wrote:
>
>>On May 16, 2000 at 02:51:37, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>>
>>>I have no idea why chess players expect their opponent to resign when in a lost
>>>position, if in order to achieve this won position they have left themselves so
>>>little time that they can't actually win the game without the opponent's
>>>cooperation.  It seems an awful lot to ask of one's opponent.  People should
>>>understand that this kind of thing happens when you sit down to play with a
>>>sudden-death time control, and plan accordingly.  If you don't plan well enough,
>>>you deserve a less desirable outcome.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>
>>You "have no idea...". Let me help you. Your reasoning is completely off the
>>mark.
>>
>>1. Tiviakov did _not_ claim victory when he was under time pressure in a won
>>position.
>>2. Tiviakov did _not_ claim draw when he was under time pressure in a won
>>position.
>>3. It was F. Morsch who dared to propose draw in the time pressure of the human
>>player and in a completely lost position.
>>4. F. Morsch behaved impolitely and without respect. Because you don't propose
>>draw in lost positions (as operator of a machine).
>>
>>Your "I have no idea..." is typical for people who work on the machine's side.
>>You are lacking of the necessary education in chess. Your machines might play
>>like masters but you are not operating like masters. That is the problem. Your
>>article demonstrated that you can't have a clue why a certain codex of behavior
>>in chess does exist at all.
>
>
>Well, I am *not* lacking the necessary education in chess (being a USCF Master
>with 20+ years tournament playing and directing experience), and I *completely*
>agree with Bruce. Who says you don't propose a draw in a worse position, when
>time is severly short for your opponent? I have had draws offered to me in this
>situation many times before. Sometimes I accepted them, sometimes I didn't.

I also had the same experience but I do not think that it is right to offer a
draw in a worse position.

I remember one case when I had a better position  but was in time trouble and my
opponent offered me a draw.

I looked for a forced win for some minutes and did not find it and after I
understood that I am in danger of losing on time I decided to accept the draw.

My opponent complained after the game about the fact that I accpeted the draw.
He explained that all the idea of offering me a draw was to win because he
expected me to think about the offer,not accepting it and to lose because of
time trouble.


 If I
>screwed up enough in my time management, then I have given my opponent an
>advantage sometimes compensating for my advantage over the board. I managed my
>pieces better, he managed his clock better. That's simply the nature of modern
>tournament play.
>
>I think your condescending response to Bruce misses the point entirely. When
>Fritz plays Human, it's a battle between two entities, and I would evaluate the
>behaviour of the computer (and operator) as I would a human. I don't care
>whether my opponent is a box of wires, or a bag of bones and muscles. As long as
>the rules of chess are observed, then I am satisfied. To me there are several
>questions that need to be answered to determine if Fritz's behaviour was out of
>line:
>
>1. Was there repeated draw requests in order to distract the opponent?
>Apparently not.


<snipped>
>2. Was there a legitimate reason for offering the draw in the position? Yes, The
>human had used a great deal of time to obtain his better position, and was in
>significant danger of losing on time.

I do not think that the human was in significant danger of losing on time
He could draw by repetition if he wanted a draw.

Uri



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