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Subject: Re: Innovate or Stagnate!

Author: Fernando Villegas

Date: 15:19:23 05/16/00

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On May 16, 2000 at 16:38:27, pete wrote:

>On May 16, 2000 at 13:27:29, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>
>>On May 16, 2000 at 13:18:34, Michel Langeveld wrote:
>>
>>>So why not a forklift truck on a World Championship of weightlifting.
>>
>>Hi Michel:
>>Perhaps yours is not the perfect example. Machine that lift weights are from the
>>beginning stronger than even Hercules. No mistery to solve. Is not the same with
>>chess programs: in fact the idea of making them play the best human player is
>>precisely to see how strong they are. Besides some improvement of human playing
>>could emerge from this kind of competition. There is plenty of room for
>>dicoveries and a challenge to the usual way we play chess. Many discoveries in
>>the realms of openning, perhaps. Nothing of that is like competing againts a
>>machine that just lift something. Different would be or will be the day there is
>>no doubt at all and just any top program can defeat any top human player. But
>>for now is not so and so we are going to lose a source of excitment and eventual
>>progress both for programmers and human players. But in any case I agree this is
>>a debatable point.
>>Fernando
>
>Maybe it is the wrong forum to discuss this but in fact I completely agree to
>your opinion and want to add a few additional aspects.
>
>Chess has _often_ been declared dead .
>
>Two probably most well-known examples are the roaring 20s when most GMs seemed
>to agree about the "Draw Death" of chess meaning that two players of reasonable
>strength will always be able to get a draw whenever they liked as chess was more
>or less solved .
>
>Then came Aljechin ...
>
>If I remember it right in 1970 Bobby Fisher ( after at last researching some
>other openings than Sozin , King's Indian and the Ruy and trying things like the
>Evan's , King's gambit at the Olympiad ) said something like :" There are no
>surprises anymore , no odd gambits anymore , nothing new under the sun . "
>
>Then look at Kasparov's performance last year !! Look at all the new openings
>found being playable and promising since 1970 !
>
>How much is the _human_ progress since 1960 ? since 1980 ? since 1990 ? Although
>there might be a rating inflation nobody can safely deny that there _has_ been
>progress.
>
>And what has this to do with computerchess ?
>
>Well : imagine a young Russian IM training KRPKR : maybe he sits there studying
>with a chessprogram and the Nalimov tablebases : likely ? I think : yes .
>
>Some years ago there was a match between Kasparov and the Swiss national team
>and I remember him doing the preparation with some Chessbase Database in
>incredible speed learning about the opponents and got nearly all of them at
>their weaknesses .
>
>It is also well-known that GMs are training against chessprograms nowadays .
>
>What will this bring ? I suspect very much that in the near future we will see
>humans playing with an tactical accuracy beyond belief .
>
>Even nowadays it has become very difficult to find a tactical mistake in a GM
>game ; blunders _do_ happen . but compair this with an analysis on famous
>tournaments like Karlsbad 1929 .
>
>Computers will rule tactics soon ( if they not already do ) but I think people
>who expect computers will be completely unbeatable in 5 years underestimate the
>_human_ mind .

I agree 100 per cent.
Fernando



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