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Subject: Re: Are the games available ?

Author: Chris Whittington

Date: 09:21:53 10/24/97

Go up one level in this thread



On October 24, 1997 at 08:52:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:

This is my last word on the subject. Obfuscate all you want.


>On October 24, 1997 at 03:49:27, Chris Whittington wrote:
>
>>>
>>Q.E. NON. D.
>>
>>Again I ask that you refer yourself to yourself for moderation.
>
>again I respond that the only person needing moderation is you.  *I*
>am not the one posting outright false statements, nor am *I* saying
>one thing while doing exactly the opposite.

Untrue.

>
>>
>>I'll make my position very clear, just so that you can't keep on
>>misrepresengting it.
>>
>>I objected to your using PAST events and their hardware patterns (to
>>which you were in objection) as the excuse to bring outperforming
>>hardware to THIS event.
>
>
>You can object all you want.  It wasn't an issue back then, it isn't
>going
>to be an issue (for me) now.  You don't like it, don't participate.

Tangential. Try keeping to the point.

>*or*
>follow my suggestion to pursue alternative ways to run this so that
>there
>is a way to play in a uniform platform event.
>

Or you follow my suggestion and do the same thing.

>
>>
>>I objected to your initiation of the arms race.
>
>
>Then stop objecting.  You gain nothing by objecting to a *false*
>premise.  Look at the original list of programs attending.  See Crafty
>down near the bottom?  See the machine listed there?  AMD K6/233.  DO
>you
>see that?  I do.  Do you see the PII/300's there?  Do you see the
>multiple
>alpha's there?  I do.


I see 767 alpha and Crafty appearing on the horizon. You've said that's
what you'll use if you can. I say that is way over the top of anything
else and therefore an arms race initiation. Not to mention that alphas
at 500 are way beyond the rest of us.

> So, at the point in time when the event field was
>announced I was on a K6/233.  That I can prove.

Big deal. Then you still went for the nuclear weapons.

>After I saw the list,
>it became apparent that 1/3 (at least) of the field would have faster
>machines.  It was probably that at least 1/2 of the field would be on
>faster machines.

Is there no end to this exaggeration ?

> I took evasive action myself to equalize.

767 is not equalising.

> I looked at
>the fastest machines coming and the PII/300, and found I couldn't find
>a freebie PII machine, because they have just started shipping over
>here.
>But I did find an alpha, with the possibility of an alpha equal to two
>other programs attending.  *after* Dark thought was listed on an alpha.
>*after* fritz was listed on a PII.  etc.  *after* rather than *before*.
>So I didn't "initiate" anything, and wish you'd stop saying so.
>

767 is initiating an arms race.

>
>>
>>Get it now ? Just because it happened in the past is no excuse for
>>starting it off again. And that's what you were doing. Your
>>argumentation was endlessly full of references to the past, and
>>Mephisto, and commercials and and and; always to past events. Always
>>justifying your action at this event.
>
>this is my second WMCCC.  you and your cohort commercial programmers

You really don't like these 'commercials' do you ?

>allowed the arms race for 14 prior years.  No bitching and moaning.

How do you know, were you listening ? Somehow I doubt it.

>No nothing.  Even two years ago saw alphas and sparcs.  The programs
>weren't competitive, you say?

Hiarcs was competitive on a Sparc. Listen, read, I say different to what
you suggest.

>So it was OK?

Brick wall, head, bang :(

>  Now the programs on the
>alphas are very competitive.  I suppose that is all that has changed...
>

Bang, bang, bang, head, ouch :(

>
>>
>>This is qualitatively different to actions taken WITHIN an arms race
>>situation. Especially after strong attempts were made to persuade the
>>offending parties to de-escalate.
>
>
>moralistic bullshit.

Rude again.

> You obtained a PII/300 *after* you found out about
>the fast machines that were being brought.  *I* obtained a fast alpha
>*after* I discovered how many fast machines were being brought.  But you
>are on the high moral ground and I am not?  Superb logic there...

No I didn't even catch up. You overtook the field. Head wall brick, ouch
:(

>
>
>>
>>Your hypocrite accusation is therefore unfounded, rude and insulting.
>>Moderate yourself.
>>
>>Chris
>
>    "hypocrite.  n.  A person that says one thing, but whos actions are
>     diametrically opposed to that."
>
>You said it is unethical to obtain faster hardware.

Using PAST events as justification, and then initiating, yes.

>
>You obtained faster hardware.

Not as fast as yours, and not as fast as the fastest. that's you, isn't
it ?

>
>You are a hypocrite.

And you are bombastic and never admit fault.

>
>Again, Q.E.D.

Pfah.

>
>Please stop the bullshit about "I initiated..."  *I* didn't initiate
>anything.  I've never said a thing about this being ethical or
>unethical,
>because it is a matter of "rules" and the rules allowed this in years
>past,
>and they still allow it now.  One thing I *have not* done is to label
>this
>as unethical, then dive right in.

Catching up in an already started arms race is one thing, trying to keep
up without even catching the leaders is another thing, trying to
de-escalate is another; but bringing kit as fast or faster than the
fastest there already is is something else.

Respond how you like. I'm now involving myself in the tournament itself.

> In essence, you've pretty well
>branded
>yourself here.  I agree with that brand...

Ride em cowboy ! Sorry your hot iron didn't quite make it ...

Chris




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