Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 01:44:43 05/20/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2000 at 18:33:41, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >On May 19, 2000 at 15:13:27, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On May 19, 2000 at 13:52:35, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2000 at 13:21:02, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2000 at 11:00:07, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2000 at 10:46:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2000 at 10:37:52, Albert Silver wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 19, 2000 at 09:29:52, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Van der Wiel could give lessons on anti-computer strategy. Of course he is a >>>>>>>VERY old hand at it, and probably the most experienced of all the players in the >>>>>>>tournament. Made it look simple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Albert Silver >>>>>> >>>>>>True, and also true for Grooten and van Wely. Back to the old question: how >>>>>>strong are today's programs? It depends on how the opponent plays against them: >>>>>>in the van der Wiel, van Wely and Grooten way, or in the (foolish) style of van >>>>>>den Doel and de Vreugt. >>>>>> >>>>>>Overall, Fritz scored very well, with 5 points out of 9 and almost a GM norm. By >>>>>>the way, I think that Fritz running on a P300 would have lost and won the same >>>>>>games. >>>>>> >>>>>>Enrique >>>>> >>>>>I've just come back and had a look at the game. Another effortless win by a >>>>>human. Fritz simply had no idea what was going on. The old Levy dictum about >>>>>doing nothing but doing it carefully was effective again... Yes, Enrique, the >>>>>key question is just how strong are today's programs. >>>>> >>>>>I agree about Fritz's scoring well (5/9), but what if the other humans had >>>>>played the slow and careful game, instead of seeking skirmish? Hmmm. All I >>>>>know for sure is that Fritz is a great blitzer, but not a great tournamenent >>>>>player, yet :) >>>> >>>>What about GM Jan Timman? He is a great player but famous for making >>>>blunders in won positions. Computers have their own weaknesses. Still >>>>they score very high TPR's these days. They do it in their own way and >>>>we don't question the rating of Jan Timman do we? >>>> >>>>Just making a point... >>>> >>>>Ed >>>> >>>> >>>>>*** Djordje >>> >>> >>>Hello Ed, >>> >>>Yes, you made a point alright. You know, problem is, whenever I analyse games >>>that comps played against highly rated humans, that I inevitably end up somewhat >>>disappointed. The same happened with Rebel for instance. After a very nice >>>game it would play a pale strategic game and lose easily... My problem arises >>>whenever I compare my expectations based on blitz games and computers' >>>performances against humans at tournament time controls. The other day it was >>>another top program that I had play against an IM friend at G/60. I was so sure >>>that the program would win, as it had done so in G/5 many times, that I wagered >>>a bet (dinner, what else?) and lost. However, the loss was not what hurt, but >>>the way it lost. No plan, no attack, no counterattack. Just waiting for >>>slaughter. Like a lamb. So I had yet another moment of sobering up. >>> >>>Still I believe that you made a point :) >> >>And you made your point too. Let's see if we can agree on the following: >> >>Computers are often far away from understanding how to play chess as humans >>do. They play chess in their own funny way and still are able to score in >>the 2500-2600 area (and still climbing) which is amazing. >> >>Ed >> >> >>>*** Djordje > > >Agreed. Yes, they can score in the 2500-2600 range. And it _is_ amazing, having >in mind all the gaps in their "knowledge" of the game. > >*** Djordje They can also score 2400-2500, as in the Israeli league. Enrique
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