Author: blass uri
Date: 08:09:29 05/20/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 20, 2000 at 10:54:53, blass uri wrote: >On May 20, 2000 at 10:04:58, Ricardo Gibert wrote: > >>On May 20, 2000 at 09:27:39, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On May 20, 2000 at 07:11:31, Terje Vagle wrote: >>> >>>>1r6/5kp1/RqQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 b - - >>>> >>>>After 45. Ra6, Fritz suggests Qe3 for black and evaluates the position as 0,94. >>>>It does not seem to find the famous draw-line for Kasparov. >>>>10 hours analysis on PIII-600, and 28006383 KN evaluated >>>> >>>>Does any other program find the draw-line? >>>> >>>> >>>>Regards >>>> >>>> >>>>Terje >>> >>>The draw is somewhere around 60 plies deep, total. I don't think anyone is >>>going to find that. >> >>60 plies? No way. More like half that. A lot of humans have no trouble >>calculating the draw to the end. I found it myself without any assistance of any >>kind. The only thing difficult about that draw is the psychological barrier. >>This Kaspy failed to overcome as we all know. >> >>As for computer programs, judging from the Chris Janeke post, commercial >>programs have no trouble finding the draw with a 5 ply headstart. If it were >>really 60 plies, I don't see how that would be possible. > >The 5 ply head start is not forced. >They could find the draw after 5 ply head start because they did not start it in >the right way. Another possibility is that program can see the draw by evaluation function and not by search. I analyzed it a long time ago with chess programs and I am sure that they needed many plies to see the draw. I analyzed it in the following way. If I saw a draw I tried to improve the line for white by using next best with genius3 and only after genius3 found no way to get a positive evaluation by using next best I was convinced that it is a draw. It seems that people do not know to analyze positions with chess programs. Giving programs to play one against the other is not the right way to analyze without trying to improve the line of the side who lose material in the evaluation is a wrong way to analyze. Uri
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