Author: Wayne Lowrance
Date: 11:45:28 05/20/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 20, 2000 at 14:04:53, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote: >On May 20, 2000 at 13:52:56, Mogens Larsen wrote: > >>On May 20, 2000 at 13:16:29, blass uri wrote: >> >>Something tells me we've had this discussion before. Kinda deja-vuish :o). >> >>>Boris Galfend's opinion: >>>main strenght of chess programs (Fritz, Junior etc) are outside the program >>>itself. >>> >>>I disagree. >>>The most simple programs can play well without book. >> >>Then what's the problem? Let it play without book and see what happens. It could >>be interesting. >> >>>I think that forcing them to play without book is unfair because if they knew >>>that they will be forced to play without book they would write their program in >>>a different way. >> >>Then they should start writing their program in another way IMO. Ridiculous ! Part of writing a program is too teach it how to play openings. Call it any way you want _opening book_ or just part of in-line programming (which the logic could be: "If that, then this or this or this or this" which is a book ! Humans have memories and GM's know openings backwards and forwards and they can prepare there own human book. Why should a computer be so handicaped with book. What is so different. The whole idea is of programming a computer to play chess and openings are part of this notion. To take that away from the program is a violation of its play level. The programs are not going to agree to this I dont think. Perhaps they should embed this opening logic in the engine, eval or whereever and not have a opening book for we purchasers. Then the GM's would complain that they cannot have access to the comp's opening logic. Now would not that be a shame ! It boils down to this, The GM's can see the hand writing on the wall and they want excuses to handicap programs to set them back another decade. Like the man was crying about, computers are getting so powerful and fast. 1.5 ghz speed from Intel by the end of this year. Imagine a quad or eight of these things running any of the better programs. Dr. Bob's Crafty on 8 or 16 Xeons what ever it shall be will be awesome. GM's take note mates. Wayne >> >>>I believe that it is possible to take advantage of the weakness of Junior by >>>getting it out of book early(there are many ways to do it) but unfortunately the >>>opponents do not prepare against Junior. >> >>If everything revolves around getting chess programs "out of book" then it's a >>very artificial form of chess. I believe you said that chess programs can make >>human players play better chess. The special kind of anti-computer chess style >>won't do that, since it wouldn't be effective against most top human players. >> >>>I hope that the opponents will prepare against Junior in the next tournament and >>>will force Amir Ban to fix the problem. >> >>I hope so too. >> >>>I do not like the fact that Junior does not know important things about the >>>opening like not getting out with the queen early but I do not think it is fair >>>to force Junior to play weak by creating new conditions that Junior is not ready >>>for them. >> >>Since there were no conditions in the first place, they can't be broken. You're >>inventing conditions that doesn't exist on paper, or anything else. >> >>>The programmers develop their program under some assumptions and it is simply >>>unfair for them to change these assumptions. >> >>If it's their own assumptions then it's not unfair. >> >>Sincerely, >>Mogens > >Computer opening books are based in games played by humans, so you can basically >say that humans are responsible for the opening book of the computers. In that >case, humans should "disable" their opening book also. >The most "fair" thing to do is that the games between humans-computers are >played from move 10-20 or so, of a well-known variation. The complaints will p >stop about this issue, but I don´t think the programmers will agree on this. >IF they agree, humans will probably complain about the endings instead.. >IMHO > >Alvaro
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