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Subject: Re: Khalifman and Gelfand on computer

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 10:52:58 05/21/00

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On May 21, 2000 at 00:01:24, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On May 20, 2000 at 17:03:26, pete wrote:
>
>><snip>
>>
>>>>Another problems with the idea is that there is no way to check that there is no
>>>>hidden opening book.
>>>
>>>Of course there is. If the tournament organisers supply the hardware and check
>>>the files before tournament start. I think it's practically possible to agree on
>>>a certain file standard that would make cheating difficult.
>>>
>>
>>I really wonder how you want to do this :-) .
>>
>>I come with a single file "chessengine.exe " . How do you want to know if it
>>includes an opening book or not ? What should the programmer stop to let the
>>engine think some random time before playing out the book move ? Or should the
>>programmers provide their source code before the tournament starts ? And if you
>>say yes , think one step further and imagine the next logical step :-)
>>
>>Let me explain with another example : some year ago one of the popular topics
>>was how programs like Fritz or Goliath were said to be tuned for BS2630 or the
>>Nunn positions . How could one prove that ?
>>
>>I think if it is about limitting the programs I mostly like limitting the
>>hardware and think this is in fact really similar to the limits of Formula 1 .
>>
>>You could also limit the programs size and say for example all of its components
>>have to fit on a CD .
>>
>>But limitting how the programs should achieve their goals under given conditions
>>is too much I think . It is a battle of minds , that is what affects the
>>interest and attraction ; at this period of time an interesting one .
>>
>>The programmers with their ideas against the GMs with their ideas .
>>
>>That the automates achieve similar goals by completely different means is
>>another part of the thrill.
>>
>>If some kind of FIDE rules for computer-human events were agreed on it would be
>>a fair battle for all as the programmers could adapt.
>>
>>But randomly disabling certain program features just how they come in mind ( and
>>this is my feeling about the TB decision in NL2000 although it obviously had
>>zero influence ) just makes no sense to me .
>>
>>All this might or might not come in the future.
>>
>>But what really attracts the public most IMHO is that at the moment the GMs
>>still can compete with the programs when they run on whatever hardware they want
>>using every trick they can invent . And this still seems to be the case .
>>
>>So why not wait with the limits until the humans really need them ?
>>
>>This will come one day , agreed ; for example I personally like to play Shredder
>>with a rook in advance . Maybe some future day this will be the only way to be
>>competitive for the best human players too :-)
>
>
>This must absolutely be avoided.
>
>No strong human player will ever accept to play with an advantage. It's just a
>question of respect. It's like saying: "OK, I know you are not good enough for
>my program, so I give you a rook in advance!".
>
>Like a slap in the face of the human player!
>
>The only acceptable way to solve the problem is to have restrictions on the
>hardware.
>
>In particular, restrictions on the total amount of memory (including hard disk)
>the program is allowed to use. By making it small enough, it will not be
>possible to have big opening books and tablebases. The programmer will have to
>make a choice on what he wants to load on the computer.
>
>Maybe even choices on the opening lines he will load. That is similar to what
>the human player does: before an important game, he prepares for his opponent by
>doing his opening revision.
>
>
>    Christophe

I don't see you offering any comparable restrictions on the humans' brains.
These have orders of magnitudes more processing power and memory than a
gigahertz PC!

Dave



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