Author: ShaktiFire
Date: 17:03:09 05/22/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 22, 2000 at 18:35:44, Joshua Lee wrote: The concept of ply vs. rating is not so straightforward. Some programs have more rigourous evaluation functions. Some have more pruning or more extensions. In order to be rigourous, which in some sense you are proposing to do, you really have to understand all the variables. It would be wonderful if you could do a full study on this... but you have to eliminate all extraneous variables, have a control in your study, so to speak. Let me know when you got the details worked out, step by step, so we can discuss them, cuz you aint there yet... :-) >This is the problem i get juggling those numbers.... >Deeper Blue 1997 (15at a minimum)17-18 Ply 2817 (USCF) > 200 MNPS 2.048Thz > >2817USCF -50 or -100 2767 or 2717FIDE (not to get sidetracked but keep this >in mind -107 2660 or 2610) > >You said DB2 is +1 ply because it is 2x Faster let's keep in mind the minimum >Ply as well > Deep Blue 1996 (14Ply Min 16-17 Ply (*)14 Ply >2642(FIDE?) > 100 MNps 1.024Thz > >512Ghz would be 50MNps and (13Ply Minimum)15 Ply so 2642-50= 2592 or -60 >=2582 >or is it -90 =2552??? > >i could really confuse things by considering Deep Blue's Positional Strength >as plain and simple a Programs strength is just it's positional play (which >isn't a fact ) people play program X but only positionally. They keep the >position devoid of tactics... >so let's say 2535- 50 =2485 or -60 = 2475 or is it 2445? > >Something tells me that this is going to end up Showing that PC's are around >2000 which isn't the case!! > >what i was saying above is that i don't know that we should say programs are >-107 or so because lack of positional strength. I got this number by not >counting the first game of the DB1 match Kasparov's rating at the time was 2775 >which is in itself way inflated from the 70's but that is another topic. >I remember someone saying how if you disregarded the first game the results show >that even at this depth the positional strength of DB was at 2535 (-107) > >You said : doubling the cpu speed is generally said to produce 50-60 rating >points.Since the typical effective branching factor is around 3.0, every time >the >speed is tripled, we get another ply, and using the 60 point figure above, >a ply would be about 90 rating points, roughly. But there is nothing that >says that as we go deeper this doesn't taper off. Nor is there anything that >says that as we go deeper, the gain doesn't actually get larger... > >Keeping your last two sentences in mind... > > -50 > -60 -90 >2.048Thz 200 Mnps 15Ply Min 17Ply 2692 2702 2732 <---?? > >Deeper Blue 1997 (15at a minimum)17-18 Ply 2817 (USCF) > 200 MNPS 2.048Thz 2817USCF -50 or -100 2767 or 2717FIDE > >Deep Blue 1996 16-17 Ply (*)14 Ply 2642(FIDE >(*2535 Positional Play Strength?) 100 MNps 1.024Thz?? 32node *6 =192 processors >1.024Thz 100 Mnps 14PlyMin 16Ply 2642 2642 2642 >512Ghz 50Mnps 13Ply Min 15Ply 2592 2582 2552 >256Ghz 25Mnps (12Ply Min) 14Ply 2542 2522 2462 >128Ghz 12.5Mnps (11PlyMin) 13Ply 2492 2462 2372 > >Deep Thought II 1991 6-7 Million Nps 64Ghz? > >64Ghz 6.25Mnps (10Ply) 12Ply 2442 2402 2282 >32Ghz 3.125Mnps (9Ply) 11Ply 2392 2342 2192 > >Deep Thought 1989 2480-2500 (FIDE) 2 Mnps 20Ghz?* >16Ghz 1.562.500nps (8) 10Ply 2342 2282 2102 >8Ghz 781,250nps (7) 9Ply 2292 2222 2012 >Deep Thought 0.02 1988 2551(USCF) 2501 or 2451(FIDE?)750KNps* 7.453Ghz >In 1988 DEEP THOUGHT and Grandmaster Tony Miles shared first place in the U.S. >Open championship. DEEP THOUGHT had a 2745 performance rating. > 2745-180 = 2565? don't you subtract 180 to get a true rating from a >performance one? >4Ghz 390,625nps (6) 8Ply 2242 2162 1922 >Hitech 1995 200KNps >2Ghz 195,312nps (5) 7Ply 2192 2102 >1832 >Hitech 1988 2413(USCF) 2363 or 2313FIDE? 175 KNps >In 1985 HITECH achieved a performace rating of 2530. 2530-180 = 2350 > > Belle 1983 2208 160KNps > >1Ghz 97,656nps (4) 6Ply 2142 2042 >1742 > Hiarcs 7.32 2000 98-134KNps 1Ghz > Hiarcs 7.32 2000 2660(LCTII)2460(FIDE est)87-123KNps 880AMD > Belle 1983 2208 160KNps > >One other thing to keep in mind is that Hiarcs looks at a Minimum of 7 usually 8 >but on average 9 or 10 sometimes 11Ply in the middlegame on my computer which is >about 120Mhz shy of 1Gig. > Something Tells me that Hiarcs is just a little bit stronger than 2142??? >* I swear i read that Deep Thought searched 12Ply in 1989 against Kasparov >I don't know if this is so and my other thought is how much of a difference does >the extensions Hiarcs gives in a position i.e if it say's that it is looking >9/30ply >how does that compare with Deep Blue saying it is looking 16Ply? >anotherwords in the same position is 16 Hiarcs ply the same as 16 Deep Blue ply >maybe that is the key to the differences in the list above. >thankyou
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