Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Deep-Blue vs Kasparov, 2.game,

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:41:12 05/22/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 22, 2000 at 19:15:59, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>On May 22, 2000 at 09:44:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>Again I agree.  But I believe our definitions of "enough" are way different.
>>IE I know a person that tried to have crafty solve "wild 7".  This is a king
>>and three pawns vs king and three pawns ending with a well-known way to force
>>a win by white.  White has pawns at a2/b2/c2, black has pawns at f7/g7/h7.
>>White's king is at d1.  Black's king is at e8.  White to play and win.  He
>>played thousands of games.  learning by "position" as crafty does it, is hurt
>>by something known as "a local maxima" which stifles learning beyond that
>>point.  This position is way easier to solve than the DB position, yet it seems
>>impervious to learning approaches.  Ande search.  Yet it is so easy for a human,
>>once he understands the idea. (Hint:  it is all about zugzwang).
>
>The "wild 7" position is not impervious to search, given appropriate evaluation
>terms.  Murray Cambell's Ph.D. thesis documents his program solving a similar,
>if not identical, position, and many other, even more difficult king and pawn
>endings.
>
>Dave


I remember Murray's thesis on Chunking.  However this is a _very_ fine line
for a position.  One mistake by white turns it into a draw.  A more serious
mistake or two small mistakes and black wins.  It is certainly possible to
develop an eval to solve it.  But it would be _very_ special-purpose.  And
it would need a lot of search to back it up.  The DB position is orders of
magnitude harder.  And trying to self-play to 'learn' the positions is a
_large_ undertaking for a program...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.