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Subject: Re: Ply Depth in relation to Elo again...

Author: Mark Young

Date: 19:24:20 05/22/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 22, 2000 at 18:35:44, Joshua Lee wrote:

>This is the problem i get juggling those numbers....
>Deeper Blue                1997   (15at a minimum)17-18 Ply  2817 (USCF)
> 200 MNPS 2.048Thz
>
>2817USCF -50 or -100   2767 or 2717FIDE  (not to get sidetracked but keep this
>in mind -107  2660 or 2610)
>
>You said DB2 is +1 ply because it is 2x Faster let's keep in mind the minimum
>Ply as well
> Deep Blue                    1996     (14Ply Min 16-17 Ply (*)14 Ply
>2642(FIDE?)
> 100 MNps 1.024Thz
>
>512Ghz would be 50MNps  and (13Ply Minimum)15 Ply so 2642-50= 2592   or -60
>=2582
>or is it -90 =2552???
>
>i could really confuse things by considering Deep Blue's Positional Strength
>as  plain and simple a Programs strength is just it's positional play (which
>isn't a fact ) people play program X but only positionally. They keep the
>position devoid of tactics...
>so let's say 2535- 50 =2485  or -60 = 2475   or is it 2445?
>
>Something tells me that this is going to end up Showing that PC's are around
>2000 which isn't the case!!
>
>what i was saying above is that i don't know that we should say programs are
>-107 or so because lack of positional strength. I got this number by not
>counting the first game of the DB1 match  Kasparov's rating at the time was 2775
>which is in itself way inflated from the 70's but that is another topic.
>I remember someone saying how if you disregarded the first game the results show
>that even at this depth the positional strength of DB was at 2535 (-107)
>
>You said : doubling the cpu speed is generally said to produce 50-60 rating
>points.Since the typical effective branching factor is around 3.0, every time
>the
>speed is tripled, we get another ply, and using the 60 point figure above,
>a ply would be about 90 rating points, roughly.  But there is nothing that
>says that as we go deeper this doesn't taper off.  Nor is there anything that
>says that as we go deeper, the gain doesn't actually get larger...

You are wrong, there is a lot of "say" that shows as you increase ply depth the
next ply you increase gets fewer and fewer rating points.

>
>Keeping your  last two sentences in mind...
>
>                                                                        -50
>    -60          -90
>2.048Thz 200 Mnps 15Ply Min  17Ply     2692     2702         2732 <---??
>
>Deeper Blue                1997   (15at a minimum)17-18 Ply  2817 (USCF)
> 200 MNPS 2.048Thz  2817USCF -50 or -100   2767 or 2717FIDE
>
>Deep Blue                    1996             16-17 Ply (*)14 Ply 2642(FIDE
>(*2535 Positional Play Strength?) 100 MNps 1.024Thz?? 32node *6 =192 processors
>1.024Thz 100 Mnps 14PlyMin   16Ply     2642     2642            2642
>512Ghz  50Mnps   13Ply Min       15Ply   2592       2582           2552
>256Ghz  25Mnps    (12Ply Min)    14Ply  2542      2522            2462
>128Ghz  12.5Mnps   (11PlyMin)   13Ply   2492     2462             2372
>
>Deep Thought II        1991                  6-7 Million Nps 64Ghz?
>
>64Ghz    6.25Mnps      (10Ply)     12Ply    2442     2402            2282
>32Ghz   3.125Mnps    (9Ply)        11Ply     2392    2342             2192
>
>Deep Thought            1989                2480-2500 (FIDE) 2 Mnps 20Ghz?*
>16Ghz  1.562.500nps    (8)           10Ply   2342     2282             2102
>8Ghz     781,250nps       (7)           9Ply     2292      2222             2012
>Deep Thought 0.02    1988     2551(USCF) 2501 or  2451(FIDE?)750KNps* 7.453Ghz
>In 1988 DEEP THOUGHT and Grandmaster Tony Miles shared first place in the U.S.
>Open championship. DEEP THOUGHT had a 2745 performance rating.
> 2745-180 = 2565?   don't you subtract 180 to get a true rating from a
>performance one?
>4Ghz     390,625nps      (6)            8Ply      2242    2162              1922
>Hitech                          1995              200KNps
>2Ghz    195,312nps         (5)           7Ply      2192    2102
>1832
>Hitech                          1988 2413(USCF) 2363 or 2313FIDE?   175 KNps
>In 1985 HITECH achieved a performace rating of 2530.  2530-180 = 2350
>
> Belle                             1983 2208         160KNps
>
>1Ghz    97,656nps           (4)            6Ply     2142    2042
>1742
> Hiarcs 7.32                  2000           98-134KNps  1Ghz
> Hiarcs 7.32                  2000 2660(LCTII)2460(FIDE est)87-123KNps 880AMD
> Belle                             1983 2208         160KNps
>
>One other thing to keep in mind is that Hiarcs looks at a Minimum of 7 usually 8
>but on average 9 or 10 sometimes 11Ply in the middlegame on my computer which is
>about 120Mhz shy of 1Gig.
> Something Tells me that Hiarcs is just a little bit stronger than 2142???
>* I swear i read that Deep Thought searched 12Ply in 1989 against Kasparov
>I don't know if this is so and my other thought is how much of a difference does
>the extensions Hiarcs gives in a position i.e if it say's that it is looking
>9/30ply
>how does that compare with Deep Blue saying it is looking 16Ply?
>anotherwords in the same position is 16 Hiarcs ply the same as 16 Deep Blue ply
>maybe that is the key to the differences in the list above.
>thankyou



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