Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: I fully agree!

Author: James Robertson

Date: 12:19:47 05/23/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 22, 2000 at 19:44:54, ShaktiFire wrote:

>On May 22, 2000 at 19:34:01, ShaktiFire wrote:
>
>>On May 22, 2000 at 16:05:14, James Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>On May 22, 2000 at 11:50:35, ShaktiFire wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 06:18:47, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 06:11:59, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 04:31:58, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 03:34:28, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 01:38:12, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 22, 2000 at 01:27:53, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>They do not indicate it because you do not know what is the rating improvement
>>>>>>>>>>from 4 processors relative to single 450Mhz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But I know, it's at least 100 points as comp-comp games have indicated!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You cannot know because the difference in comp-comp games does not have to be
>>>>>>>>the same as comp-human games and I am also not sure that the difference in
>>>>>>>>comp-comp games is 100 points because the ssdf did not test the new hardware.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>We can know the difference between p200 and K6-450 but we cannot know the
>>>>>>>>difference between k6-450 and better hardware because it is possible that there
>>>>>>>>is diminishing returns from hardware.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hasn't Heinz new book conclusion: there is no proof about  diminishing returns
>>>>>>>so far...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is no proof so we do not know if there is diminishing return or there is
>>>>>>not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>The only way to prove that there is not diminishing return is by games and there
>>>>>are not many comp-comp games at tournament time control to compare.
>>>>>
>>>>>We know that there is no significant diminishing return when you upgrade from
>>>>>p200 to K6-450 but we do not know what happens when we upgrade from K6-450 to
>>>>>better hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>The evidence is there in the ratings.  At one time, SSDF correlated with
>>>>human-computer games.  Now the SSDF rating is much higher than actual human-
>>>>computer
>>>>results.  This indicates..... against humans, there is a diminishing return with
>>>>increase in computer speed.
>>>
>>>Not necessarily; it is quite possible that the returns are not diminishing, but
>>>just that they are smaller at all speed increases.
>>>
>>>James
>>
>>Thank you , James.  Perhaps I will understand your subtleties in several
>>reincarnations... or perhaps if I had more subtle genes...or a few of those
>>infamous German lagers... but still a great joy to discuss even our small
>>hobby domain of computer chess :-)
>
>Ok, maybe if the humans are improving and learning anti-computer skills...
>I think this is possible... maybe we humans can hold out for several more
>years.... :-)

I hope so; I don't want the game to be over before it had started!

James

>
>>>
>>> In computer - computer ratings, the ratings are
>>>>still increasing linearly with ply.  Its hard to plot this out, with different
>>>>software versions, but the trend from p90 to p 200 to k6-450 is there...
>>>>basically linear ratings increase with ply increase.   This might change later,
>>>>since I believe the actual curve, ratings vs ply in computer vs. computer, is
>>>>piecewise linear, and gradually decreasing, but not decreasing as quickly as
>>>>in comp vs human play.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.