Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 21:27:03 05/24/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 24, 2000 at 20:02:23, Peter McKenzie wrote: >Sounds like great work Ernst, I look forward to reading it. > >I've always wonder though if fixed depth games were the right way to go about >looking for dimishing returns. To me, it seems more useful to use fixed node >counts (eg. 1 program is allowed N million nodes per move, vs same program being >allowed M*N million nodes per move). This would model more closely what happens >when we get faster hardware. > >The problem with fixed depth is that the endgame is played at a much worse level >than the rest of the game. Well, worse in relation to what a chess program >playing under a normal time control would do. I mean, normally programs search >much deeper in the endgame. Matches 5 vs 6 ply make (some) sense in the mid-game. In the end-game even matches 8 vs 9 ply are russian roulette. We don't know how many games were decided in the end-game. I think the idea of Ernst is just great but why not test 5/all vs 10/all, 10/all vs 20/all etc. IMO results then are much more reliable to proof the truth behind dimishing returns for chess programs. Ed >Perhaps my concern is irrelevant, I'd like to hear your opinion. > >Sorry if you have addressed this issue already, i'm unable to read your article >right now. > >cheers, >Peter > >On May 24, 2000 at 15:08:15, Ernst A. Heinz wrote: > >>Dear Fellow Computer-Chess Enthusiasts, >> >>In view of the current discussion about diminishing returns in the thread >>"Ply Depth in Relation to ELO again", I like to share the results of my >>latest self-play experiment with you. >> >>The stunning outcome of the new experiment is that it shows the existence >>of diminishing returns for additional search in computer chess self-play >>with 95% statistical confidence, exemplified by the program "Fritz 6"! >> >>The title and abstract of my M.I.T. LCS Technical Report on the >>experiment follow below. >> >>*********************************************************************** >> >> ``A New Self-Play Experiment in Computer Chess'' >> >> ABSTRACT >> >>This paper presents the results of a new self-play experiment in >>computer chess. It is the first such experiment ever to feature search >>depths beyond 9 plies and thousands of games for every single match. >>Overall, we executed 17,150 self-play games (1,050--3,000 per match) >>in one "calibration" match and seven "depth X+1 <=> X" handicap >>matches at fixed iteration depths ranging from 5--12 plies. For >>the experiment to be realistic and independently repeatable, we relied >>on a state-of-the-art commercial contestant: "Fritz6", one of the >>strongest modern chess programs available. The main result of our new >>experiment is that it shows the existence of diminishing returns for >>additional search in computer chess self-play with 95% statistical >>confidence, exemplified by the program "Fritz6". The diminishing >>returns manifest themselves by declining rates of won games and >>reversely increasing rates of drawn games for the deeper searching >>program versions. The rate of lost games, however, remains quite >>steady for the whole depth range of 5--12 plies. >> >>*********************************************************************** >> >>Please find the full report in gzip'ed PostScript format at the URL >><http://supertech.lcs.mit.edu/~heinz/ps/new_exp.ps.gz>. >> >>Any comments welcome! >> >>=Ernst= >> >>P.S. >> >>Electronic preprints of my earlier publications on the relationship >>between computing power and playing strength of chess programs are >>available from http://supertech.lcs.mit.edu/~heinz/ and the WWW >>pages of "DarkThought" at http://supertech.lcs.mit.edu/~heinz/dt/.
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